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Bronze statues
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I have noticed there are two ways to read the Psalms: (1) My, they sure were great saints in those days; or (2) These words are normal Christianity. My spiritual breakthrough has been in moving from #1 to #2.
Consider for instance: “I…go around your altar, proclaiming thanksgiving aloud, and telling all your wondrous deeds” (26:6,7).
Did I really used to go around telling people of God’s deliverances and wondrous deeds in my life? Did I really thank Him out loud in public? Never crossed my mind. If you had put me to the wall about these verses, I would have said we moderns fulfill them in a “cultic” sense — that is, by showing up on Sunday morning and singing the hymns.
Even some of the best Christians I know are deficient in this area. My friend B. is reverent, quiet, submissive, modest, gentle, loving, praying, Bible-reading, and of unimpeachable character; I thought she had no faults. But for years when she and I got together to fellowship, our conversation was somehow always….defeated. It was pious defeat, to be sure: we moaned and whined about how we have no power in our lives. But it was not honoring to God. He wants praise and thanksgiving with joy.
We are both changing our tune. We have come to see that when God said “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:9), he meant the “mouth” part every bit as much as the “heart” part.
We shouldn’t make bronze statues of the saints of old.
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As I tell the story of my life, God’s works are revealed. The listeners and I are praising God.
Just yesterday, God’s work was revealed in a unique way and I forcefully praised him as we beheld the faithfulness and the glory together.
2-
an abuser of the weak was taken out of his role by the works of his own hands; it was God’s doing and we praised him
I love the psalms. I’m thankful to belong to a church where they are sung regularly.
Consider for instance: “I…go around your altar, proclaiming thanksgiving aloud, and telling all your wondrous deeds” (26:6,7).
The altar is where? In church? If that is the case, how many of us are allowed to speak in church?
I think we can say that now our altar is Christ, because he’s our sacrifice.
Amen Bianca.
Anyone for throwing Babalonian children against the rocks (Psalm 137:9) or trampling our foes (Psalm 44:5)? Much in the Psalms can be applied (and perhaps spiritualized) for today but there are some things that have to be taken in their historic context and just left there.
Outdeep #7:
“…there are some things that have to be taken in their historic context and just left there.”
I disagree. I don’t think there is anything in the Bible that should be “just left there.” Context is essential in understanding the meaning of a verse, yes, but I believe all scripture can be applied to our lives (2 Timothy 3:16), even the “imprecatory Psalms” such as Psalms 44, 69 and 137.
Granted, this does not mean that we should start dashing infants against rocks or anything, but among other things, these Psalms help us see God’s justice and wrath as fitting and good.
Reg #4:
“The altar is where?”
“Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God?” 1 Corinthians 6:19
so where do we proclaim what God is doing and praise him for it? In church? Anywhere? where does it happen?
“where does it happen?”
I would say: “Everywhere. And in everything.” We can do this both by our words and our actions. And yes, we should do this in church - especially in church.
in church?? in unison??
“I disagree. I don’t think there is anything in the Bible that should be “just left there.”
“Granted, this does not mean that we should start dashing infants against rocks or anything”
You just argued both sides of the coin.
The point is Bible interpretation means to seek to understand what the original author intended his words to mean in his historical context and world. From there, you seek to understand the lesson or principle and then build a bridge to today.
If you spiritualize “alter”, you also have to spiritualize “dashing children against the rocks”. Most Christians like to pick and choose.
I think it is just as silly to ask “what does the alter mean today” as “what does dashing children mean today”. It means what it is - an alter in the temple and children who were unfortunate enough to be Babylonians.
The application today might be “I should praise God on the way to church just like the Jews of old praised God in their religious services” or “I’m sure glad we don’t dash children’s skulls anymore but look to God to settle our differences”.
Reg - At my church we often take time to share testimonies & “praise reports”. Sometimes someone will raise their hand & ask if he (or she) can share about something God has done.
Reg - Many of your comments seem to be “anti-pastor”, sometimes even “anti-church”, at least to me. Do you have something against pastors in general? What role do you think a pastor should have in a church?
As I mentioned elsewhere, I agree with you that we are a body of priests & should use our gifts to minister to each other (& others). But pastors are called to shepherd their “flocks”, & have a great responsibility.
My own pastor takes his calling from God very seriously, but also urges us all to do whatever God has called us each to do. He is the kind of man who will take time to listen to you, get to know you, let you ask questions.
I know not all pastors are like that, but I also doubt that the majority fall into the stereotype of the tyrannical leader, either.
The third way to read the Psalms is as Christ’s prayer book. His words from the cross came from the Psalms. And by the way He will do worse that dash heads against stones. He will finally send the unbelievers to hell. The Bible is about Jesus first not saints of old or my own sanctification. Read the Psalms and remember that Jesus is the Savior who is to be praised and thanked for His work of Salvation; So that my head need not be crushed as the promise even in the Garden “I will crush His head” reminds us that God is serious about sin, that you and I will not in this world attain to perfect holiness, but Jesus has.
In some ways we know very little about the lives of the Saints of whom are spoken in the Bible..
I agree with you tho about moving from #1 to #2 simply b/c I think they weren’t super humans.
I think your last point is what links all of this together. As we DAILY practice HOLY LIVING in our DAILY lives… a day makes up a few weeks makes up a month…. months make up years.
MUCH SANCTIFICATION practiced.
I find the most difficulty in your last point tho..”when gathered with a friend”.
You want to share your troubles and I find the most encouragement in listening to another in how she might deal with the struggles that I might too be having…but I’m not doing good in the “whining area”.
I’m gonna ask for more grace in this area.
Outdeep:
Perhaps I have misunderstood you. At first glance it appeared that you were saying that some verses are no longer useful to the believer. I believe every part of the Bible is in some way useful to the believer, and so I read “just left there” to mean “not useful,” which I see now is not you intended meaning.
I don’t understand, however, what you mean by “spiritualize”. Perhaps you could clarify what you mean by that?