More Active Posts
Front Page
Tony Snow dies
 |
 113 Comments |
Tony Snow, 53, the former press secretary for President Bush, died early this morning from colon cancer, the same disease that took his mother’s life when he was 17.
“America has lost a devoted public servant and a man of character,” said President Bush in a statement. “It was a joy to watch Tony at the podium each day. He brought wit, grace, and a great love of country to his work.”
Snow’s varied and interesting career—Fox News Chairman Roger Ailes called him a “renaissance man”—got its start in 1979 here in my hometown of Greensboro, N.C., where he wrote editorials for our now-defunct afternoon paper. During the 1980s, he went on to be the editorial page editor of The Newport News Daily Press in Virginia, deputy editorial page editor of The Detroit News, and then the editorial page editor of The Washington Times. In 1991, Snow joined George H.W. Bush’s administration as director of speechwriting and deputy assistant to the president for media affairs. After that he wrote syndicated columns for The Detroit News and USA Today. When the Fox News Channel went on the air in 1996, Snow came on board and was the original host of “Fox News Sunday.” He performed other duties for FNC and hosted “The Tony Snow Show” for Fox News Radio before departing in 2006 to replace Scott McClellan as President Bush’s press secretary. Snow resigned from the White House last September and became a political commentator for CNN in April.
Click here for a tribute by one of Snow’s FNC colleagues, Brit Hume.
Addendum (12:56 p.m.): Our friend Justin Taylor over at Between Two Worlds has linked to an article Snow wrote a year ago for Christianity Today titled “Cancer’s Unexpected Blessings.” In it, Snow concludes:
“Through such trials, God bids us to choose: Do we believe, or do we not? Will we be bold enough to love, daring enough to serve, humble enough to submit, and strong enough to acknowledge our limitations? Can we surrender our concern in things that don’t matter so that we might devote our remaining days to things that do?”
Addendum II (1:20 p.m.): Tom Blumer over at NewsBusters rightfully criticizes the Associated Press’ handling of Tony Snow’s death, which we linked to above: “The AP’s story … gets in at least three cheap, fundamentally untrue, and totally uncalled-for shots at Tony Snow. … Godspeed Tony. I’m sure God will take an objective view of your life, and you’ll waltz right in to be with Him for eternity.” It’s interesting to compare the way AP handled Tim Russert’s passing with how it covered Snow’s death this morning.
 |
Topic: Featured, WorldMagBlog |  |
Email a friend |
 |
Keywords: Associated Press, Brit Hume, CNN, Fox News Channel, george-w.-bush, media bias, Roger Ailes, Scott McClellan, Tony Snow |  |
RSS 2.0 |
 |
You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed. |  |
Share this: |
Soul searching
“This world is not my home, I’m only passing through . . .”
Congratulations to Tony on his promotion. Condolences to his family on their loss.
Good men are hard to find. He will be missed by many.
I want to cry. No other newsman’s passing has brought tears to my eyes.
Thank you LORD for Tony Snow.
Amen.
I enjoyed hearing him on the radio.
I was stunned to learn of his death earlier this morning.
May he be resting in Jesus’ everlasting arms.
And may his family rest in those same arms.
I didn’t agree with his politics at all, but he always seemed to be a sincere, well-intentioned person. He treated people with courtesy and respect and always seemed like a truly warmhearted person.
My reaction is similar to SteveG’s reaction. I would add that he seemed to be an intelligent person who used his intelligence well.
The following has nothing to do with Tony (see feel free to ignore), but with the manner of his death. Another person who died of the same disease at about the same age (while reaching the peak of a career) was Ernst Becker.
One need not be ill to ask Tony Snow’s questions.
A gentleman who will be missed. Glad to know he knew the Lord.
I really liked Tony. I thought he was the best Press Secretary ever…seemed like we were getting more than spin, and he had a way of exposing loaded questions.
He was courageous and down-to-earth. I’m glad he stepped down to spend time with his family while he could. What an incredible loss to his wife and children.
Anybody else having trouble viewing the AP story?
I keep getting a google has moved the site map location, and internet explorer can’t open it. And that’s from World’s link, as well as newsbusters, and bizzyblog’s. Did they yank it already? Anybody got a link that will work?
I checked the links again using Firefox and Safari, and they seem to be working fine. Time to ditch Explorer!
OK Mickey, thanks.
In Brother Snow, honor was sacred and virtue safe.
Pure class too.
Sorry to hear that. Condolences to WMBers.
Sad day in media land. Both Russert and Snow will be missed.
” I’m sure God will take an objective view of your life, and you’ll waltz right in to be with Him for eternity.”
Indeed, since God’s view of anything is always, by definition, the only objective one.
From the comments section of Tom Blumer’s critique of the AP story:
I don’t know who Tom Blumer is, but from that little snippet he sounds like one who would think any question less positive than “Is Bush a great president or the greatest president?” must come from a “Bush hater.”
The role of the press is to challenge and ask critical questions. Questioning the wisdom of a strategy or the rationale for a policy position is not “insulting,” it’s proper.
I’m sad to hear of Tony Snow’s passing.
His article on “Cancer’s Unexpected Blessings” is beautifully thought out and written - a great reminder for all of us - especially those of us who claim to have accepted God’s gift of grace and eternal life.
My mom was diagnosed with Stage 3 ovarian cancer in Feb 2007 and forwarded this article by Tony Snow to me when she discovered it last year. She says that it expresses beautifully some of what she has experienced and is encouraging as she also faces an early death.
I’ve been very encouraged by my mom as she seeks to be thankful for what she does have and live life to the fullest while she has it. In the meantime, her faith and reliance on God have been inspiring.
My husband and I have just finished reading “Cancer’s Unexpected Blessings” by Tony Snow. That’s a masterpiece, from a man who knew the LORD Jesus Christ and trusted in HIM no matter whether he lived or died.
Tony’s trust was so strong, that he relinquished his heart to trust in such a way as to free himself from this world long before he left it.
As we read the account of this man’s testimony one cannot think the same of death again. Those who have not known the LORD will never know the peace that passeth understanding which Tony Snow obviously experienced during his illness.
Tony Snow is now with the LORD, where will you be when you die?
SteveG,
First, Tom Blumer - you know, the guy that is referenced in the initial blog post above? As in (and I quote):
Second,
You must not recall how badly the press has acted recently. Many times the questions asked have served no point at all except to express their scorn and hatred of our president.
Finally,
since you don’t seem to recall either of my first point, I suggest you just haven’t been paying attention.
Why do conservatives call him a “newsman”?
Tony Snow was never a reporter. He began and ended his career as an editorial writer, editorial page editor, and opinion advocate. He was a persuader and a controversialist in the media. In politics, he was a speechwriter and spokesman.
Mickey’s guy doesn’t explain what’s “fundamentally untrue” about any of the three so-called “cheep shots.” Two of them seem obvious and unremarkable. The third was a characteristic that endeared Tony Snow to his fans, so what’s the problem?
I read some of the comments on the death of Tony Snow by liberals on other blogs and most of them were rather frightening. So much for the stereotypical, gentle, hippy liberals that you see on TV.
When will they ever learn?
Make It Man: Since your mind is made up, there’s no real point in arguing it. Suffice to say, I read the linked article from Blumer and I stand by what I said. The press corps’ job is to question and challenge. Sycophants of the president will of course scream about alleged bias and hatred rather than agree that the questions are fair, regardless of who the president is.
(That is to say, I fully expect President Obama to be grilled just as hard, and you will think the press corps has become objective again and Obama’s fans will complain about how badly they treat him compared to Bush’s near-free pass.)
Steveg 24 — better wait till Novemeber, BO isn’t ahead in the polls — what a surprise!
Rasmussen Reports
Daily Presidential Tracking Poll
Sunday July 13, 2008
For the second straight day, the Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll shows that the race for the White House is tied. Sunday’s numbers show Barack Obama and John McCain each attracting 43% of the vote. When “leaners” are included, the two candidates are tied at 46%.
Victoria: Of course if McCain wins, then I expect conservatives to continue whining about imaginary bias anytime a reporter dares question the wisdom of a McCain policy.
Kbells: Did you read my comment here (#5)? Did you read your fellow WoW conservatives’ posthumous attacks on George Carlin? Do you defend them?
SteveG, maybe you should be worried too, out of curiosity I looked at the comments on the u-tube announcement of Ted Kennedy’s cancer and the remarks were just as horrible. This culture war is getting scary. It is just a matter of steps from hate to dehumanization to justifying persecution. No wonder people want to win so bad, they are afraid of what the other side will do to them if they lose.
SteveG- My mom always told me two wrongs do not make a right. So, would you please set an example of niceness so we awful conservatives know the next time to be nice?
Even though I differ with his politics, TS seemed like a genuinely great guy, with great music taste.
Plus, from his commentaries after the Space Shuttle blew up, I understand he was a theological universalist.
Jon, do you mind?
Once someone passes on, Jon Rowe is sure to be there to judge (or rather, speculate on) their alleged theology and categorize or label them doctrinally (often in Jon’s own image), whether he knew that person or anything about them at all.
I don’t know the particulars of Snow’s theology and so I don’t try to assign labels to him. I only know that Tony Snow was a decent and honest man. Meanwhile, I will take Jon’s attempt to label him docrinally with a huge grain of salt.
Peter L: SteveG- My mom always told me two wrongs do not make a right. So, would you please set an example of niceness so we awful conservatives know the next time to be nice?
Already done. See #5 in this thread.
It seems to me that this crowd had absolutely NO problem “judging” George Carlin after he died, and they did so in a far meaner way than what I said about Snow whom I praised.
If you’d like I could look for the original copy, but in case anyone is interested I called Snow a theological universalist (many members of Christian Churches are) because after the Space Shuttle blew up in 2003 he asserted on air that all of the astronauts including the non-Christians (one was a Hindu I believe) were in Heaven. And that raised the ire of an evangelical who wrote to chastise Snow for making such an assertion. Snow read the critical letter on air.
Catholic Peggy Noonan is a universalist as well. When Jewish (and political liberal) Senator Paul Wellstone died, she asserted he was in Heaven.
Jon Rowe - 33
YOU WRITE:…. “If you’d like I could look for the original copy, but in case anyone is interested I called Snow a theological universalist (many members of Christian Churches are) because after the Space Shuttle blew up in 2003 he asserted on air that all of the astronauts including the non-Christians (one was a Hindu I believe) were in Heaven.?”
Please give the link for this story - not a blog story but a reliable source.
He might’ve been a “nice guy”, but Tony Snow was a lying shill for the neocons who are doing their all to plunge us into one war after another on behalf of Israel.
As Peter Leavitt said of George Carlin, “the world is well rid of him.”
Jon Rowe: It seems to me that this crowd had absolutely NO problem “judging” George Carlin after he died, and they did so in a far meaner way than what I said about Snow whom I praised.
And even though you and I have both mentioned it, the silence in response is telling.
#32, Jon Rowe,
Your George Carlin connection is irrational and irrelevant to my comment. You were labeling Tony Snow in your own theological image and I responded to that. So, respond to me. Did I ever judge George Carlin? No!
Your use of the phrase, “this crowd” is telling. if you are responding to me, then what “this crowd” does is not the point is it?
Jon Rowe,
Your penchant for judging, labeling and categorizig people you don’t know into your theological image is nothing more than chips digging into your own shoulder. When a commentator mentions heaven in a positive light after someone dies, that is not necessarily grounds for pidgeon-holing the commentator into a theological category nor is it grounds for judging their lifelong theological convictions. I find your biased theological judgments of people you dont know to be unreliable and unfounded.
Night Train,
You only insult and humiliate yourself with your unkind, ignorant and falsely judgmental comment. I think those who accuse Snow of “lying” are lying! Excactly when or where did Tony Snow ever lie?
I never saw the George Carlin thread, that I frecall, and subsequent comments make me glad. But it has nothing to do with Tony Snow.
JOEL MARK: When a commentator mentions heaven in a positive light . . .
. . . then that’s a good commentator! You’re on the mark, Mark.
When a commentator mentions the presence of non-Christians in heaven, that’s a no-no. Jon’s on the mark about that! Such a misconception easily can put one in peril of one’s eternal soul.
So, did Mr. Snow “mention heaven in a positive light” or did he throw the pearly gates open to non-Christians? Does Pastor Joel understand the difference?
What’s a “no no, Scroop?” People mention heaven is all sorts of contexts and meanings. It can get confusing but that’s what comes with free speech. Anyone’s eternal soul is in God’s hand for His discretion. What I object to is labeling and categorizing people we don’t really know with doctrinaire theological labels that they may or may not have embraced at all. It’s silly.
And I never claimed to know what light Mr. Snow mentioned heaven in. I guess what I don’t understand, Scroop Moth, is what you are talking about.
“He was (pick theological label).” “He was not (pick theological label).” Can you guys leave Jon Rowe to his thoughts or take the discussion elsewhere?
Oy veh!
Joel-
Snow was a likable and gifted propagandist. An example of Tony Snow lying? there are many, but here’s an example.
“It’s pretty clear that these things are based on performance and not on sort of attempts to do political retaliation, if you will.”
“Those email accounts were set up on a model based on the prior administration, which had done it the same way, in order to try to avoid Hatch Act violations.”
“You didn’t have girls in school when Saddam was there.”
RIP Tony
Peter L.
I don’t know why you find me so irritating, but some folks are genuinely interested in discussing these issues. For instance, Victoria wrote: “Please give the link for this story - not a blog story but a reliable source.”
I’m looking for the actual copy of the text, but don’t know if it’s available online. I’ll let you know if/when I find it. Otherwise it’s just my memory I’m going on, which of course, could be faulty.
For an example of GODLUMPS lying, see #44.
I would not claim that any public spokeman for any cause or person is accurate all the time in every way. But if someone digs up an alleged inaccuracy a day or two after the spokesman dies and presumes it to be a “lie”, the chances are that the accusor is the one with a truth problem. There are many ways that human beings can actually be inaccurate but to presume that lying is taking place is often a huge leap of judgment. As I see it, leftists just love to make such leaps when it comes to conservatives who dare to express their views in speech or in words freely.
some folks are genuinely interested in discussing these issues. For instance, Victoria wrote: “Please give the link for this story - not a blog story but a reliable source.”
Ah, I hate to break it to you, Jonny boy, but Victoria was not really interested in the typical blather you spew on this blog site. She simply was asking you to back up your views with a reliable source, not a link to your own blog (or another one that supports your politics).
Hey Jeff,
Did you ever get that blogpost I linked to here where I showed your relative Ezra Stiles was a fervent supporter of the French Revolution?
Jon 33 - 35 - 45
I’m still waiting for the so called link. I have researched the internet, and it doesn’t exist, unless there is a secret code.
You make lots of remarks which you don’t give links to back up your posts. If this is to put doubt on someone’s character —- what you have actually managed to do now, is put a question on why you post things which cannot be substantiated.
I QUESTION this ever being said since this would have been a very good story at the time it happened, and certainly wouldn’t have disappeared.
I have an idea
— when you make statements like this it would be wise to find the link and post it rather than ….. saying something which most likely isn’t true.
Hey Jon —- who ever Ezra Stiles is, isn’t relevant, because you cannot come up with a website to substantiate your post.
Switching the gears on the blog?
Heh. Oh Victoria, when will you realize that I am, if anything, extremely honest with you folks, however much you may disagree with me.
Tony Snow did indeed say (at least I recall) what I remember him saying. And quite frankly, I don’t see how controversial it would be to assert that all of those astronauts even the non-Christian (one of which was a Hindu) were in Heaven when they die. Most members of American Christian Churches are probably universalists in this respect. Evangelical Protestants such as yourself, though sizable, are probably a statistical majority withing the American Christian population.
Jon-
Most of us believe your first hand account of Snow’s report, and thank you for posting it here.
Jon,
It is important, that’s why you told the ’story’ but by some strange fluke you can’t produce a link.
POST 33 ….. “And that raised the ire of an evangelical who wrote to chastise Snow for making such an assertion. Snow read the critical letter on air.”
Yep it would have made a stir - so where is your proof?
Joel-
Have another sip of that kool-aid!
Thanks Godlumps.
Victoria: My proof for now is my own memory and honest character. I’ll let you know if/when I find a link.
Interesting that liberals like to use the kool-aid jab. Jim Jones was a liberal.
Oooops. I just caught the mistake. This should have read:
“Evangelical Protestants such as yourself, though sizable, are probably a statistical MINORITY withing the American Christian population.”
Most evangelicals accept this as the Bible speaks of a “narrow” path.
When is Jon going to learn that you never, ever question, criticize or disagree with anything Vicky dear says on here? She has diplomatic immunity straight from God!
Us Libertarians and Independents use it too when someone drinks a few too many times from the Bushie Bowl of it on the kitchen floor. Is it sour grape flavor, Joel?
Jon: So what if a relative of mine supported the French Revolution? I have another relative who rode with Jesse James, and another one who was a porn star, and another one who was arrested for grand theft.
Ezra believed quite a few different things than I believe, or even would have believed had I lived during his lifetime. So what?
Why don’t you tell us about the porn star one day or Whirled Views. That would be interesting.
I just thought you might find Ezra Stiles position interesting.
Jon - 61
Put your energy’s into finding the website which will prove what (as you say) Tony Snow said - Or is that impossible because it doesn’t exist, but you put it out there as though its FACT.
Ezra Stiles doesn’t have anything to do with Tony Snow and you know it, but it sure beats you coming up with a reliable source -
Start proving your points!
Outkast,
It’s a game — It’s called “say what you want” and then when you can’t prove it — attack those who pursue the truth — it’s dstract and camouflage — he knows exactly what he’s doing, and so do the rest of us.
Victoria,
I never claimed it was on a website: Rather I based my claim on eye-witness accounts — what I remember him saying while watching the Fox News stories on the Space Shuttle blow up.
And again, I think it’s bizarre that you would even make a big issue out of this. Most “Christians” in America, from some polls I have seen, are probably universalists, in the sense that they believe good people get into Heaven, that folks of other religions or no religion at all likewise can get into Heaven.
Evangelicals who believe Christ the only way, that you have to be “born-again” to be saved are a minority (though a sizable one) among the 80% of the American population that understands itself to be “Christian.”
Whether they are really “Christians” or not, I’ll let you guys debate and judge.
Victoria,
I don’t believe you, its that simple. I don’t believe you heard Tony Snow say anything of the kind — however I do agree that it suite’s your interests whatever they might be.
So where is it? If it were on FOX News they have record of this, you can get it from transcripts.
Jon, one thing you fail to understand it isn’t what the “American population” understands, it is what the Word of GOD says, that’s the KEY. The whole world can believe in whatever myths it wishes, but GOD has decreed what will happen to man if he doesn’t believe in HIS WORD.
Post 65 is in response to post 64 -
1st paragraph in post 65 should not be there, please excuse the quotes, etc. —— “I don’t care what you believe about “universalists” - that has no bearing on what we are discussing.”——-
JOEL MARK: #39 When a commentator mentions heaven in a positive light after someone dies, that is not necessarily grounds for pidgeon-holing the commentator into a theological category . . .
JOEL MARK: #42 And I never claimed to know what light Mr. Snow mentioned heaven in. I guess what I don’t understand, Scroop Moth, is what you are talking about.
And I never claimed that you did know “what light Mr. Snow mentioned heaven in.” Did I? All I did was quote your own words to the effect that the light was “positive.” I didn’t speculate what you meant by that.
If you can’t understand what I said above, here it is again: Snow didn’t just say something nice about heaven, he said some non-Christians went there. That’s my whole point. I ‘m saying there’s a factual dispute between you and Jon over what Snow said.
Victoria,
You think I would just make something up out of whole cloth and try to pass it off on this blog???
The incident happened in 2003 and as such my memory like everyone’s is imperfect; so there could be an error in interpretation, but imagine how foolish you are going to look when you actually find out that Snow said something along those lines.
Billy Graham and the Catholic hierarchy too have flirted with theological universalism. But again, the meaning of their words are open to debate. As I remember Snow’s there was nothing debatable about them. He asserted all of the astronauts including the Hindu were in Heaven. And then when challenged by an evangelical, he gently [emphasis added] ridiculed the evangelical for making a deal out of it.
Saying (from “memory”) that Tony Snow said something is like someone saying (from “memory”) that they heard firsthand BHO say that he’s a Muslim. Without there being any proof, we have to assume it was another one of Jon’s dreams.
JON, That’s exactly what Victoria accuses bloggers of doing. In my experience with her, she makes repeated demands for “links” and then fails to acknowledge the proof when you go to the trouble of documenting it for her.
Transcripts of these things exist, but the real fact is that Victoria doesn’t care what Snow said or did not say, only the points people can make about him.
Jon - 70
You’re annoyed that you can’t make this stick without proof, I understand. However bringing Billy Graham into the mix just adds to your obvious need to desperately protect your sense of credibility –
Well here is John MacArthur, one of the top orthodox biblical theologians, speaking about and criticizing both the Catholic Churches AND Billy Grahams flirtation with universalism. AND he has transcripts.
Jon: According to post #28 here, Snow made the comment you’re thinking of on Fox News Sunday, Feb. 2, 2003.
The Fox News archives don’t seem to go back that far, but perhaps that will help you locate some more verification.
Steveg, your link doesn’t work!
Jon,
John MacArthur can criticize anyone he likes, add to that the name of Billy Graham, it doesn’t mean a thing to those who know Billy Graham, the illness’s he has suffered for a very long time.
You’re looking for a new ‘window’ to pull up your credibility, it isn’t working Jon, not this time.
Something you and other’s might not know. Billy Graham has been ill for years, he has been hospitalized for water on the brain more than a few times — he has had the procedures which are required to alleviate for a ‘time’ the pressure, etc., of his situation. Add to that other problems, such as Parkinson’s disease, and prostrate cancer. He takes medication, which most likely has many side effects.
Many people have felt that Billy Graham should have steered clear from interviews because of his health problems, but obviously he believed differently.
MacArthur is not as popular as you might think, but this isn’t going to be the venue to bring up a debate.
The link works fine for me. Try again.
Anyway, all it is is a forum post from someone on the date that Snow actually said what Jon is referencing. It is a piece of independent corrboration, but I offered it mainly because it provides the date and the specific show, which might help anyone trying to track down a real transcript.
Sorry Steveg doesn’t work for me.
If you are saying the link I cannot get to, is other than a REAL News source, it doesn’t have any credibility. I don’t get REAL information from blogs, etc.,
I put no credibility in them, nice try.
Maybe the link will work for others?
“Sorry Steveg doesn’t work for me.”
Now I’M the one who does BELIEVE YOU. I believe you can access the link but are saying otherwise because you see it corroborates what I say.
The following is cut and paste:
On 02-02-03, 01:36 PM #28
shotglass
On Fox News Sunday this morning, Tony Snow made a comment in his parting thoughts that I thought was pretty good. I don’t remember it verbatim, but it was something to the effect of “They have gone from the heavens, to Heaven”.
Should have read: Now I’M the one who doesn’t BELIEVE YOU.
Jon,
Show me a link to a NEWS source, not a blog, or a type of blog, not a link which doesn’t work, not a source like Wikipedia and I’ll listen, other than that ……
Victoria:
That’s just what I said. Read my #78. I SAID it is not a source, but that it gives a specific date and name of the show to help Jon search for a more direct source. It is a piece of corrboration, but not a direct source … all of which I already said.
If you can’t be bothered to actually understand what people are saying before spouting off, that’s your problem, not mine.
Victoria,
Steve’s link is to a discussion site from 2003 that corroborates what I’ve been saying. You either conclude that Snow said something along those lines or that I knew about this link all along and this is where I got my info from. How could I have made something up only to have it show up on a discussion thread from 2003?
Jon,
There are dozens of conversations/discussions on blogs, etc., that does not mean that what is posted is FACTUAL, without a proper link to a news source that verifies the material.
YOU WRITE:…. “How could I have made something up only to have it show up on a discussion thread from 2003?”
You probably read it there, or some other place just like it. When you start reading blogs for factual information which they can’t substantiate, its a joke. Do you honestly think that everything you read on blog type sites are true, on second thought, maybe you do
“You probably read it there,…”
No I didn’t. I heard it coming out of Tony Snow’s mouth and didn’t see it anywhere on the Internet until I checked Steve’s link. I also remember the next week on Fox News an evangelical like you complaining about Snow’s comment (wrote a letter or email), noting not all of those astronauts were Christians and Snow gently ridiculing the evangelical for his or her complaints.
Keep looking Jon, you just might find it, take your time we will all wait until you find it.
I have been over at FOX, checked every single way to get the INFO, no such luck - perhaps because it wasn’t there in the first place.
Victoria: I have been over at FOX, checked every single way to get the INFO, no such luck - perhaps because it wasn’t there in the first place.
No, because it was said in 2003 and their archives don’t go back that far. And because it was spoken on a live broadcast, not written.
Jon’s right: Someone else heard Snow say the very same thing and wrote about it the same day. That backs up Jon’s memory, and your denial begins to just seem desperate.
Steveg
YOU WRITE:…. “No, because it was said in 2003 and their archives don’t go back that far.”
Wrong Steveg, they go way back, this one takes place in 2001 -
Friday, June 08, 2001
Transcript of Fox News’ interview with McVeigh defense lawyer Robert Nigh and Oklahoma Gov. Frank Keating on Fox News Sunday.
TONY SNOW, HOST, FOX NEWS SUNDAY: Attorney General John Ashcroft, acting on news that the FBI had failed to share more than 3,000 pages of documents with Timothy McVeigh’s defense team, has delayed the Oklahoma City bomber’s execution until at least June 11. Here to discuss the McVeigh legal strategy is McVeigh’s lead attorney, Robert Nigh. Also here, Brit Hume, Washington managing editor of Fox News.
Brit?
Steveg, the above was LIVE as well!
Maybe you should go back and dig up the piece you claim isn’t there due to “archives”
Victoria,
You see the weight of evidence is against your claim and you are nitpicking.
See if YOU can find the copy of the day that Tony Snow discussed the Space Shuttle tragedy (he was an anchor when it occurred after all), and then show me the copy where his statements don’t confirm my recollections.
If it doesn’t exist online it’s NOT because Snow never said these things, but rather because Fox doesn’t have an archive of the copy of all of its news events.
Jon,
YOU POST:….
“See if YOU can find the copy of the day that Tony Snow discussed the Space Shuttle tragedy (he was an anchor when it occurred after all), and then show me the copy where his statements don’t confirm my recollections.”
That’s your job Jon, you’re the one who made the CLAIM The research will give you experience, its a GOOD THING!
You brought the ’so called quote from Tony Snow’ so lets see it, I’m not going to search for proof for your posts.
You’ve been caught —– every single time you make a statement which you can’t substantiate with a RELIABLE SOURCE, not a silly blogger or poster but a bonafide News Service I’m calling you on it.
Let your ego take a break, give it a lollypop or whatever it takes to calm the senses –
Yes, Jon is busted. Good job, Vic!
Outkast: LOL. Thanks for always being so consistently reality-free.
We only have two pieces of evidence about Jon’s assertion: Jon’s own memory AND the similar experience of another person who posted about it on the day it was said, thus providing a contemporaneous record.
(That big word means “recorded at the time it happened.” –so we’re not dependent on that person’s memory long after the fact, because the note was written just hours after the event occurred.)
That is less than proof but it is support, and there is so far no evidence to contradict it. So the score is 2-0 in Jon’s favor and here you come to declare Victoria the winner. Delightful.
One might wonder why you guys are fighting so hard to insist that a conservative commentator and White House spokesman believed precisely the same way you do.
“One might wonder why you guys are fighting so hard to insist that a conservative commentator and White House spokesman believed precisely the same way you do.”
I don’t believe that EVERYONE goes to Heaven when they die — ONLY those who have trusted Jesus Christ as Savior are going to heaven -
“I don’t believe that EVERYONE goes to Heaven when they die — ONLY those who have trusted Jesus Christ as Savior are going to heaven -”
Good for you. And apparently Tony Snow did not believe as you do.
Victoria, sweetie, that’s just the point. You don’t believe that and it is apparently very important to you that Tony Snow didn’t believe that either … so much so that you’re denying plain evidence that he did.
Why?
Jon - 96
Until I read from a credible news source other than your word for it, or someone blogging, etc., that Tony Snow said anything you have posted, its a moot point, I just don’t believe it.
Regarding the transcript of that show -
A column in the Wall Street Journal the next day mentioned something said by Iraq’s ambassador to the U.N. on that same show with Tony Snow. A transcript of the show could not be found on FoxNews.com, but was available through Dow Jones Factiva. Factiva shows that it has full text of Fox News Sunday going back to 5/26/1998. It requires a subscription to access. I tried “try for free” option but it does not include searching old archives.
Of course, Victoria, Jon is NOT a credible source, so thanks for hanging tough with this. SteveG just likes to blabber on and on without actually saying anything.
The anti-Christians on this blog (Jon and SteveG being two ofthe more vocal ones) love to twist what some believers say to get Christ-followers to fight against one another, but the Truth will always set us free.
When you find some truth Outkast, be sure to let us know. Your “contributions” to the dialog are usually just random heckles and smug half-witticisms, so your accusing me of “blabber” is really quite amusing.
Outkast thanks. It seems to have become a ‘hobby’ to see who will believe this nonsense without proof.
Victoria, you haven’t explained yet why it matters to you what Tony Snow believed.
Thanks Pauline!
Unfortunately I’m not willing to pay one cent for access to archives just to prove Victora wrong.
As for my not being a credible source, Jeff has yet to show where I have ever lied or spread unsubstantiated information on these weblogs. To the contrary, I’m one of the most meticulous footnoters on this blog.
Jeff’s point is a simple poor “posioning the well”/genetic fallacy.
I think Jeff is just upset at me because he must have believed in the “Christian Nation” myth as promoted by Wallbuilders et al. and got irritated with my debunking of it on these threads.
#56 - Good point.
#64, Jon Rowe wrote; “And again, I think it’s bizarre that you would even make a big issue out of this.”
You raised the issue by making a statement about Snow without documentation or proof. Fine. Victoriasimply stated that she was not buying it. Fine. I’m with Victoria.
#96, Jon Rowe wrote; “Good for you. And apparently Tony Snow did not believe as you do.”
But you don’t know that, Jon, at least your posts do not demonstrate that you know it. You just think it, based on a vague memeory of an allegedly vague statement you claim he made some 5 years ago.
Jon, I just don’t buy it when you make up theological beliefs about people and categories for them after they are dead based on selective, vague or maybe even inaccurate claims. And I think you do this often.
You may be right or wrong in different cases, but your claims and sources have not sufficed for me.
#104, Jon Rowe wrote; “I think Jeff is just upset at me because he must have believed in the “Christian Nation” myth as promoted by Wallbuilders…”
The last time you referred to Wallbuilders, Jon, you falsely referred to them as advocating the worship of the flag or our nation. I looked into it and yours was a blatant misrepresentation.
It is no “myth” that we have been a “Christian nation.” I think we still are but not as strong as we once were in this respectable regard. We were founded as a Christian nation with a secular gov’t, for the most part. Even the Founding gov’t was meant to be quite friendly to faith, but not formative of it or instrumental to it.
That’s not exactly what I said about Barton & Wallbuilders, rather that their confusing “Americanism” with “Christianity” essentially resulted in the worship of the American flag.
If you try to argue Nature’s God granting men an unalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and the 27 violations in the Declarations, etc. as “biblical” (as Barton does) then essentially you import ideas into the Bible & Christian Religion — “American” ideas — that are foreign to Christianity and try to pass it off as “Christian,” you commit deceptive idolatry.
On Tony Snow & theological universalism the evidence is 2 - 0 in my favor.
It would be nice to find stronger evidence about Snow and universalism (since apparently some of our exclusivist friends are highly offended at the possibility), but Jon is right about the evidence … we have his memory that Snow said all the Columbia astronauts, including the non-Christians, went to heaven, AND we have another Internet poster referring to the same comment in a post written on the same day Snow said it.
We have no evidence offered that Snow ever expressed an exclusivist view.
So it is 2-0 in Jon’s favor, but we do not have conclusive proof.
I just read something Tony Snow wrote regarding his cancer and his faith, which many people have found very helpful and encouraging. It’s posted in several places on the web, here is one:
http://livingcanvas.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/tony-snow-cancer-testimony.pdf