Comments on: Tony Snow dies

By: Pauline

Pauline — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:31:35 +0000

I just read something Tony Snow wrote regarding his cancer and his faith, which many people have found very helpful and encouraging. It’s posted in several places on the web, here is one:
http://livingcanvas.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/tony-snow-cancer-testimony.pdf

By: SteveG

SteveG — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:25:27 +0000

It would be nice to find stronger evidence about Snow and universalism (since apparently some of our exclusivist friends are highly offended at the possibility), but Jon is right about the evidence … we have his memory that Snow said all the Columbia astronauts, including the non-Christians, went to heaven, AND we have another Internet poster referring to the same comment in a post written on the same day Snow said it.

We have no evidence offered that Snow ever expressed an exclusivist view.

So it is 2-0 in Jon’s favor, but we do not have conclusive proof.

By: Jon Rowe

Jon Rowe — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:32:27 +0000

On Tony Snow & theological universalism the evidence is 2 - 0 in my favor.

By: Jon Rowe

Jon Rowe — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:31:19 +0000

That’s not exactly what I said about Barton & Wallbuilders, rather that their confusing “Americanism” with “Christianity” essentially resulted in the worship of the American flag.

If you try to argue Nature’s God granting men an unalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and the 27 violations in the Declarations, etc. as “biblical” (as Barton does) then essentially you import ideas into the Bible & Christian Religion — “American” ideas — that are foreign to Christianity and try to pass it off as “Christian,” you commit deceptive idolatry.

By: Joel Mark

Joel Mark — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:00:32 +0000

#104, Jon Rowe wrote; “I think Jeff is just upset at me because he must have believed in the “Christian Nation” myth as promoted by Wallbuilders…”

The last time you referred to Wallbuilders, Jon, you falsely referred to them as advocating the worship of the flag or our nation. I looked into it and yours was a blatant misrepresentation.

It is no “myth” that we have been a “Christian nation.” I think we still are but not as strong as we once were in this respectable regard. We were founded as a Christian nation with a secular gov’t, for the most part. Even the Founding gov’t was meant to be quite friendly to faith, but not formative of it or instrumental to it.

By: Joel Mark

Joel Mark — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:55:37 +0000

Jon, I just don’t buy it when you make up theological beliefs about people and categories for them after they are dead based on selective, vague or maybe even inaccurate claims. And I think you do this often.

You may be right or wrong in different cases, but your claims and sources have not sufficed for me.

By: Joel Mark

Joel Mark — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:51:56 +0000

#96, Jon Rowe wrote; “Good for you. And apparently Tony Snow did not believe as you do.”

But you don’t know that, Jon, at least your posts do not demonstrate that you know it. You just think it, based on a vague memeory of an allegedly vague statement you claim he made some 5 years ago.

By: Joel Mark

Joel Mark — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:42:33 +0000

#64, Jon Rowe wrote; “And again, I think it’s bizarre that you would even make a big issue out of this.”

You raised the issue by making a statement about Snow without documentation or proof. Fine. Victoriasimply stated that she was not buying it. Fine. I’m with Victoria.

By: Joel Mark

Joel Mark — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:34:41 +0000

#56 - Good point.

By: Jon Rowe

Jon Rowe — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:25:23 +0000

Thanks Pauline!

Unfortunately I’m not willing to pay one cent for access to archives just to prove Victora wrong.

As for my not being a credible source, Jeff has yet to show where I have ever lied or spread unsubstantiated information on these weblogs. To the contrary, I’m one of the most meticulous footnoters on this blog.

Jeff’s point is a simple poor “posioning the well”/genetic fallacy.

I think Jeff is just upset at me because he must have believed in the “Christian Nation” myth as promoted by Wallbuilders et al. and got irritated with my debunking of it on these threads.