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Whirled Views 3.24
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Happy Monday!
Today’s quote is from a cowboy and comedian: “Outside of traffic, there is nothing that has held this country back as much as committees.”
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Gloomy conservatives
Will Rogers?
RDEAN in post #47 of Whirled views 3-20 you said, “Things will get even more difficult for the US as the religious right attempts to expand its power. They are damaging every institution. Other indications are the colleges and universities they build which are always tier four, the lowest rated or unrated because they prefer the mystical over courses in the many fields of science. Their ongoing attempt to rewrite the US Constitution to include discrimination. This is a sign of the oncoming darkness that is spearheaded by the religious. Of course they can’t see it. God is on their side. They have memorized verses and script. Eventually, the secular will have to take a stand against religious intrusion and that’s when I expect to see actual violence.”
Violence against who by who? Sorry I’ve been so late addressing your post. I struck me as interesting when I first saw it but it was end of the day when I was about to turn in. Then I remembered it, looked it up and thought I’d ask.
Maybe we should put all the committees into cars, and let them meet during traffic jams.
I would have guessed Will Rogers, too, but Kbells beat me to it.
KBells guessed correctly–enjoy your virtual cappuccino!
Good old Will. Love his “wisdom”. If he were alive today, would Microsoft® be on his list of things that hold us back? I assigned my students a research paper, and one student could not print his out anywhere at the school, because he used Word 2007 and the school only has Word 2000. Any techno geeks out there want to explain why the new version does not work on older systems?
A modern day take on Easter from Boundless e-zine:
http://tinyurl.com/2td3ez
Thanks, Michelle. That was good.
An interesting story Michelle.
Friends,
You may be interesting in the developments in a conversation I had on this blog on the Jonathan Edwards thread. I was debating a poster who argued for the traditional notion of Hell as eternal torture. This inspired a blog post where I noted though almost all conservative evangelicals distance themselves from Fred Phelps, the extreme Calvinist or Edwardsian notion of Hell as eternal torture is, in my opinion, as bad a belief as anything Fred Phelps or militant Islam peddles.
One of Fred Phelps estranged sons (one who disavows what he stands for) left a comment on my blog) And now Shirely Phelps Roper has replied on my blog as well.
http://positiveliberty.com/2008/03/nate-phelps-on-hell-extreme-calvinism.html
Jon Rowe - I have always taken the various passages on the fates awaiting us all (the Bema Seat Judgment of believers and the White Throne Judgment of non-believers) included rewards (beleivers) and punishments (non-beleivers) as being based upon our relative deeds and culpabilities.
In other words, while our fates are eternal, the rewards (beleivers) and punishments (non-beleivers) vary. The truely horid (say, Hitler) may be looking at an eternity of being waterboarded, while the whole ‘just didn’t quite pull together a saving faith but were relatively decent folk’ group will have an eternity of mere annoyance (say, ill-fitting shoes and too-tight underwear while waiting in line at the DMV).
Thanks, Michelle. The last line was joyous.
And I see that my right/left hand issue is really flaring up in post #11. That disc injury is still messing up my typing (after a year), such that my left hand beats my right hand to the keys on a lot of words (today’s problem seems to be ‘believers’).
Peter L: The reason new versions of software don’t work on old systems is simple. If they did, Microsoft couldn’t sell as many new systems.
I always loved Rogers’ quip about how he didn’t belong to an organized political party: he was a Democrat.
I saw this recommended book on the Bayly blog (along with the paragraph in which I found it) :
“When I read Jacques Ellul’s False Presence of the Kingdom a number of years ago, I found it very helpful in giving me a Christian understanding of Church-state relations, and particularly the danger of the Church being compromised in her work and message by the influence and power of the state.”
According to Amazon, the book is a translation from the French. I was wondering if anyone else had read it or could recommend (or not recommend it). Jon Rowe?
I’ve never heard of Jacques Ellus’ book, but if it is influential on Church/State relations I’ll certainly put it on my reading list.
KRM,
That’s certainly more of an “enlightened” position on Hell; it is in stark contrast to the view put forth by Jonathan Edwards or Bill Wiese’s — a man who has been making the rounds on evangelical shows describing 23 minutes he spent in Hell where men have bodies, there is 300 degree heat and demons 1000 stronger than humans threw him against the wall and he felt every bone breaking.
On Hell: I’m not a traditional believer and am just philosophizing. I can see the justice in annihilation and can’t see the atheist as having too much of a moral objection because that’s what he thinks he is going to get anyway. However, as I understand the “narrow” path to salvation idea, it strikes me as unfair that God would grant eternal life only to those folks who pass his theology test (for instance, traditional Christian teachings hold Arianism and Socinianism to be soul damning heresies; so figures such as Isaac Newton, John Locke, John Milton, and others because they for whatever reason bought into Arianism lose out big time for making a theological error).
The only way that Hell as eternal separation from God can be just is if folks choose such separation (even after death) because it will make them happier. And the only reason why people would be happier not in God’s presence is that God doesn’t permit sin in His presence and men want to continue to enjoy their sins for all of eternity, be they fornication, sodomy, adultery, gluttony, drunkeness, pride, gossip, etc.
In short, Hell, in this sense would be like an eternal Las Vegas nightlife. Sin City indeed (perhaps now you may understand why the vast majority of humanity would choose such a thing).
But Hell as eternal torture I see as morally unjust and impossible as 2+2=5.
Another word used for committees is “boards”, and churches have them too.
Just a reminder that another name for a “board” is “dead wood.”
No wonder little gets accomplished.
Jon Rowe - Thanks. I would also take the position that this view has solid Scriptural support.
An eternity of the Vegas night life? That would be eternal torture (I had my hedonist period and came to see its emptiness) - particularly without any hope of anything different/better.
Folks might also be interested in reading this sermon by Jonathan Edwards in which he expands upon the doctrine of hell as well as preemptively answer various objections to the doctrine.
http://www.jonathan-edwards.org/Eternity.html
Ah! Another prominent Democrat in the news for sexual misconduct….
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8VJSSFO6&show_article=1
Jon,
I want to address your comments, but I want to make sure I understand them first.
So, you do not believe in the narrow path to God?
Do you believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose again?
Do you believe in heaven?
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question.
What’s a parent to do?
I’ve read &/or heard several times that ear infections will usually clear up on their own within a few days.
But I’ve also heard of the danger of hearing loss if the infection gets out of hand.
How do you other parents decide when to take your ear-infection-afflicted child to a doctor?
1) Absolutely not;
2) I seriously doubt it;
3) A strong possibility.
Karen O,
When in doubt, take them in. Better to get the opinion of somebody who is trained to look for things then the words of idle speculators on the web. As a side note, you probably know your own child as well as anybody and how she is with ear infections. But probably not something worth playing with.
And for the general public:
Apparently in an amazing discovery, it has been learned that the outside of the sun (corona) is hot. I suspect it is because I drive a twenty five year old car rather than have a new one manufactured for me every few years. So, if anybody wants to know, it is my fault and I take full responsibility.
#6 (PETERL): It’s a change in formatting or your student used a feature not supported by the older version. Have him/her save the file and any future work as a WORD 97-2003 document. If that fails (it should not), have him/her save it as a RTF document. He/she will loose some formatting or the special feature used, but it will print in WORD 2000.
#23 (KAREN O): Don’t count on it clearing up. I lost hearing in the mid (speech) range due to an ear infection as a child that was allowed to clear upon its own. You just make yourself and your child miserable by waiting and the danger of hearing loss is real.
Peter L/#6,
Word 2007 can read older, but older can’t read newer, since it wouldn’t know what was coming in the future! But Dr. Dave’s suggestions will work.
Karen O/#23,
Dr. Dave and I again have something in common–I, too, lost much of my hearing in one ear and some in the other from (in my case, undiagnosed) untreated ear infections. I depend a good bit on lip reading and closed-captioning. Take the child in, imo.
Thanks, Mumsee, Dr. Dave, & Cameron.
We do take Chrissy to the doctor when her ear hurts, & it is usually an ear infection. She tends to get them after she’s had a cold that’s lasted a while.
I just wonder about these people who claim they don’t bother with antibiotics for an ear infection or other bacterial infections.
Karen O,
It is a little frustrating to take them in only to find nothing wrong or have the doc say “just watch it and if…we will try antibiotics” but it is better than the alternative.
And all sorts of people have sure cures that won’t be there when your daughter can’t hear so well because her eardrum punctured from the infection or whatever.
Cheryl D,
Well……..???????????????????????????
Karen: I once caught my son’s finger in the car door as I was closing it. You’d have thought it was broken the way he screamed. So I rushed to the Dr. The doctor said, give it a little benign neglect. But it was worth the trip. That was when I was a poverty sticken student, too.
Mumsee: Since you are driving a twenty-five year old car, (Even older than my eighteen year old Pontiac when I finally ditched it.) you are obviously putting more than your share of carbon into the atmosphere. That means you need to buy carbon credits.
Have I got a deal for you!
You send me fifty virtual bucks and you can drive your car as much as you want.
FYI: I have pledged all the money I get from my carbon credit business to the Ralph Nader presidential campaign.
So, just send him your virtual bucks.
Scout’s honor, on that.
Well, the deed is done. I have submitted the annual April Fools company newsletter to the owner for pre- approval. Twelve articles written over the last 3 weeks, plus about another 10 small blurbs and quotes. Being humorous and sarcastic, without going over the line is hard work. Knowing which individuals and company policies can be made fun of without offending someone is not as easy as it appears. Finding fresh, new material after 5 years is stressful. (Maybe that’s why I’ve been in such a lousy mood on here).
He took it home with him to read tonight.
Hopefully I’ll still have a job in the morning.
I wish you all the best with that, Anlir.
Jon,
Thanks for responding. The fact that you don’t believe Jesus died on the cross really nixes the comment I was going to make. I am glad I asked the questions before I took a whole bunch of time to address something that you don’t believe.
Have a good night
This VIDEO is not to be missed!
TJ — Ellul was a protestant thinker of the mid-20th C. Fought with the Resistance in WWII as I recall, later served as mayor of a city.
His major work is Technological Society — a rather dense analysis of the emerging technological age, and the determinism of technique and pragmatism. He generally comes off as rather skeptical of human agency (anarchists and Anabaptists love him); the theologically sophisticated will pick up his debt to the thinking of Karl Barth along with his youthful reading of Marx.
As to his work on the Kingdom, while I know of it, I have not read it. That said, I have always found him to be pretty stimulating. His book on the Elijah cycle, The Politics of God and the Politics of Man had a profound influence on my political thinking and wooed me away from the easy triumphalism of so many of the Dutch Reformed.
Lets see if works on this thread
re #35
And McCain can’t tell the difference between a Shite and Sunni three times on the same trip even with Lieberman whispering in his ear.
Although at McCain’s age, memory problems are a valid excuse. I wonder if he will have to put in his hearing aid when the phone rings at 3 AM
Hilary is done — the dragging out is hurting her party and quite frankly her selfish pursuit of power is only confirming her worst critics. Some dignity is needed.
Dr Dave and Cameron: I learned long ago about saving files as RTF. I had MS Works at home and Word at work. They are totally incompatible, even though they are both Microsoft. Bill Gates has to be the biggest used car salesman around!
Mumsee,
It’s a boy! Not a little one, either–9 pounds 12 ounces. This makes the next generation of my family (counting only biological offspring) fully 75% male–including the adopted boy and girl, we now have five girls and thirteen boys. I was really hoping for a girl (as was nearly everybody in the family) to give my sister’s lone girl a sister.
And I’m home. The two-year-old is sick, so I debated staying another night or two, but basically it seemed like they didn’t need me as much as I needed to come home, my sister has recovered well, and the oldest is a genuine help to his parents when he needs to be. But if anyone is reading this, praying that the little girl won’t stay sick would be nice–they don’t need illness to go through the family, with a newborn. (My niece threw up early this morning several times, had no fever, but then didn’t throw up again before I came home in the early afternoon; I decided it was OK to leave. But this evening, my sister reports, she does have a fever. I’m hoping it’s just a 24-hour thing and the other family members don’t get it.)
Thanks for asking. I was debating whether to post this evening or wait till tomorrow.
Welome into the real world little boy! What a blessing and it was so good that you were able to go help out as well, Cheryl. Praying for the family.
Chas,
Thank you for the kind offer but I have no need for carbon credits as I plant trees. In fact I have the new kids planting trees as well so I should get extra credit as well.
Besides, I am thinking of replacing my car with a newer model. Third son is done with the ‘92 Ford Ranger that has been bouncing around the family for the past sixteen years and it looks like I might get it!