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For the past 20 years, Sen. Barack Obama has attended Trinity United Church of Christ on Chicago’s south side–a congregation led by the often controversial Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Wright married the Obamas, baptized their daughters, and is credited for the title of Obama’s book, The Audacity of Hope. By Obama’s own admission, Wright has served as a mentor of sorts.
But now Obama seems to be distancing himself from the recently retired preacher–a man who even Obama aides concede has a long history of “inflammatory rhetoric.” ABC News details some salient examples, including Wright’s assertion that the United States brought the 9/11 attacks on itself because of its own terrorism:
“We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye,” Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.
“We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America’s chickens are coming home to roost,” he told his congregation.
Has Obama’s pastor turned into a campaign liability?
Editor’s note: Read Daniel James Devine’s article on Barack Obama’s church in the just released, March 22/29 issue of WORLD and see a segment from one of Wright’s controversial sermons on WORLD On the Web.
Editor’s note (2): See Alisa Harris’ roundup on this story at WORLD On the Web.
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A matter of life
Gee, ya think?
He’s clearly filled with hatred of white people. He tells his congregation they shouldn’t sing God Bless America, but God Damn America. He gave a Lifetime Achievement award to Louis Farrakhan, who calls white people “blue eyed devils” and refers to Jews as “bloodsuckers”. Jeremiah Wright with his God Damn America campaign is to white people what Fred Phelps and his God Hates America campaign are to gays.
And Obama has been going to this hatemonger’s church for 20 years. He’s calls this man, who’s just Hitler with Down’s Syndrome and a tan, his “hero” and “mentor”. He named one of his books after one of Wright’s sermons. When asked about all this stuff, he says “I don’t necessarily agree with everything he says.”. Imagine if McCain were a member of Fred Phelps’ church, and called Phelps his hero and mentor, and he tried that excuse. He’d be out of politics forever.
A campaign liability? LMBO! You aint’ seen nuthin’ yet! If he somehow gets the nomination, this stuff will be all over the TV in political ads. Wimp McCain, who says’ it’s hateful to even speak the guy’s name, is probably too spineless to run the ads himself, but there will be plenty of Swift Boat type groups who won’t be.
I think when the list of things your pastor says which you disagree with exceeds the list of things upon which you agree, it might be time to move your letter of membership. I’d be more concerned if Barack or Michelle had been on the pastoral search committee and hired this man.
It is difficult and a bit unfair to impute any motives to why anyone chooses to retain membership in a church headed up by a buffoon. But I once did that. The senior pastor’s sermon’s were pop psychology and he’d toss in quotes from Hindu teaching or secularist philosophies. To worsen matters after his wife left him he remarried. Wife #2 was a prior church staffer who’d moved off, divorced her husband and then returned to the fellowship. That scenario initiated lots of speculation and tongue wagging.
But I and many other UT students stayed on at the church. We were hardly fans of the top guy; but we were all inspired and challenged by a biblically conservative collegiate/singles pastor. When the senior pastor lead the church unScripturally the assoc pastor departed as did most of the students/singles.
The Obamas might still be memebers of the church for reasons completely unrelated to the kook demagogue in the pulpit.
Interesting how McCain took so much flak for John Hagee’s past remarks. McCain is NOT and has never been a member/donor to Hagee’s San Antonio megachurch!
I’d have “distanced” myself from anyone who held up Louis Farrakhan long before now… In fact I’d have never associated with him.
But having said that, I once worked for a fellow who was as bad a racist as any person I’ve ever met. I kept working for him because I needed to eat, but I was sure looking for something else once I found out…
The Obamas might still be memebers of the church for reasons completely unrelated to the kook demagogue in the pulpit.
Right. That’s why Obama named his book after one of Wright’s sermons - for reasons completely unrelated to the kook demagogue in the pulpit.
And that’s why Obama calls Wright his “hero” and “mentor” - for reasons completely unrelated to the kook demagogue in the pulpit.
I never cease to be amazed at the lengths people will go to in order to deny or justify black racism.
Seriously if a conservative so much as visited a right wing version of this guy the left would be losing their minds. Look at the Haggee/McCain deal that Sawgunner pointed out.
Obama joined the Trinity Congregational church in Chicago probably due to the practical reason that he couldn’t be an effective community organizer among the black people on the South Side of Chicago, most of whom were devoted Christians. Whether he then became a serious Christian upon getting involved with this church is a reasonable question.
Having read Obama’s Dreams of My Father and Audacity of Hope it is clear that Obama has identified mostly with his black heritage. Understandably, he struggled with losing his Muslim father through a divorce and then moving to Indonesia with a Muslim stepfather. Despite this he has clearly identified himself mostly with both his anthropologist mother’s undoubted anti-Americanism and Third World resentment toward America. He occasionally refers to his white grandfather who fought in Patton’s army, though it’s obvious that his heart is not on this side of the family.
Obama’s choice of Trinity Congregational Church in Chicago is interesting, as its preacher, N.T. Wright, is distinctly anti-American and rather aggressive in attributing most of his people’s problems to racism. The following comes from the church’s website:
We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian… Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain “true to our native land,” the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.
If any white candidate attended the mirror image of this church, he or she would have been tarred and feathered by the media.
Barack Obama is a rather charming and articulate young, rookie senator, with a gift for frothy rhetoric. Americans need to take a hard, dispassionate look at him before casting their vote.
Peter Leavitt writes: “If any white candidate attended the mirror image of this church, he or she would have been tarred and feathered by the media.”
If any white candidate did this, all the media would have had to do is run one or two stories and the candidate would be run out on a rail!
I’m afraid I’m going with Night Train’s stronger remarks here. If you don’t believe in what the guy is saying, you don’t use his words as the title of your book.
More negative comments about Obama! Blatant racism! It’s the only explanation!
The truth is that we have made mistakes. The US and Europe worked to bring down the only democratic government in the Middle East (Iran) and put the despotic Shah in power. No wonder they were mad when they got rid of the Shah. Somehow, bringing up American mistakes is unpatriotic. I think it’s unpatriotic NOT to.
Well, Do not be surprised if Hillary is on the top or bottom….errrr….of the Socialist Ticket, that the near Marxist Obama and his wife will leave their beloved church for another. His membership and closeness to the old fire breathing pastor is a political liability. How hard is it for Obama to say he has had enough of this whack job and his church and move to one less insane? Piece of cake and it all goes away in a week.
But bringing up America’s mistakes of legalized abortion and sexual promiscuity is hateful.
RDean, this pastor said “God Damn America!” That’s not saying America made mistakes as you just did. It’s saying “God Damn America.”
I would agree with you that the US has made mistakes and that it is not unpatriotic to talk about that, but it is unpatriotic to say “God Damn America.” This man spews hate. A church that is “unapologetically Christian” shouldn’t be preaching hatred. Obama has listened to this for 20 years, has baptized his kids in this guy’s church. That’s quite an endorsement.
You can make an excuse for anything. It’s incredible.
I thought this thread might have been about McCain eagerly accepting the endorsement of the anti-Catholic Hagee, or his own pastor Rod Parsley arguing that America was founded for the purpose of wiping out Islam.
I guess those things don’t matter.
Look, the only person to worry about with regard to Obama is Obama. If his own thoughts, ideals and beliefs are acceptable, it doesn’t matter what Wright says.
Look, the only person to worry about with regard to McCain is McCain. If his own thoughts, ideals and beliefs are acceptable, it doesn’t matter what Hagee and Parsley say.
KBells: Exactly.
If we’re going to judge candidates based on what someone close to them says and believes, we have to do it fairly for both. If we’re going to judge them only on what they themselves say and believe we have to do that fairly for both as well.
It’s easy to slip into an unbalanced approach, where we ignore those uncomfortable persons close to the candidate we like, and treat the candidate we don’t like as if they were personally responsible for everything said by their associates. Easy, but wrong.
While radio-surfing yesterday, I came upon Michael Savage’s talk show, where he was discussing Jeremiah Wright. I don’t agree with the way he attacks liberals, but he brought up one scary point: If Obama becomes President and Jeremiah Wright is chosen to speak at the inauguration, imagine what he would say. Remember, he’s someone who dares to proclaim from the pulpit (in the U.S.), “God D— America.” And he claims that that’s in the Bible.
Ooooh, only a few more days before Lent is over. Then I can opine on political themes.
This has been the best Lent ever as it has made me aware of how intensely connected to politics my mind has become. Since I’m originally from Chicago (moved Southeast a few months ago) I can tell you a lot about how Wright and Obama are connected. But that will have to wait until March 24th and beyond, although Lent has given me a greater desire to mute my opinions and bloviating on politics in the future.
But Hagee and Parsely are not close to McCain. They didn’t baptize his kids or influence his book.
I agree with KBells. While we should judge the candidate on their own views and positions, we shouldn’t ignore what influences them. Obama has obviously been influenced by Wright in the past, and I think it is a valid question to ask to what degree Wright might influence him as president.
When Farrakhan received his award from Pastor Wright, did he condemn the churchmembers for rejecting Allah and Allah’s final prophet? For any muslim to set foot in a church and have any type of fellowship with the infidel Christians surely must merit a fatwa.
Be afraid, Calypso Louis, be very very afraid. (You can maybe get Salman Rushdie’s upper bunk at the hideout??)
#6 “Obama’s choice of Trinity Congregational Church in Chicago is interesting, as its preacher, N.T. Wright, is distinctly anti-American and rather aggressive in attributing most of his people’s problems to racism.”
N.T. Wright? The Anglican bishop/theologian who propagates the New Perspective on Paul is Obama’s pastor? I didn’t even know Obama was British.
#13 So, Steve, if a candidate was a member of Fred Phelps’ church and considered him a spiritual mentor, you wouldn’t consider that relevant to the campaign as long as the candidate qualified it by saying, “I don’t agree with everything Fred Phelps says.” Right.
Here’s a little thought experiment. Let’s pretend we all just found out that McCain is a member of Fred Phelps’ church. That he’s been going there 20 years. That McCain chose him to perform his wedding ceremony. That Phelps had conducted the baby dedication ceremony for his kids. That he’d written a book and named it after one of Phelps’ sermons. That his advisers had to talk him out of inviting Phelps to give the prayer at his presidential campaign kickoff. That he considers Phelps his “hero” and “mentor”.
Now try to imagine SteveG coming on here and saying that we shouldn’t judge McCain by who his preacher is or what his preacher says.
I see Ree beat me to it.
Read Daniel James Devine’s article on Barack Obama’s church in the just released, March 22/29 issue of WORLD and see a segment from one of Wright’s controversial sermons on WORLD On the Web.
SteveG, McCain has taken heat for not repudiating Haggee. I don’t know the facts on Parsley; could you provide your sources for him?
Obama’s minister, Jeremiah Wright, whom Obama has written that he reveres is way over the top, as the following from an ABC News report indicates:
Sen. Barack Obama’s pastor says blacks should not sing “God Bless America” but “God damn America.”
The Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Obama’s pastor for the last 20 years at the Trinity United Church of Christ on Chicago’s south side, has a long history of what even Obama’s campaign aides concede is “inflammatory rhetoric,” including the assertion that the United States brought on the 9/11 attacks with its own “terrorism.”
An ABC News review of dozens of Rev. Wright’s sermons, offered for sale by the church, found repeated denunciations of the U.S. based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans.
“The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing ‘God Bless America.’ No, no, no, God damn America, that’s in the Bible for killing innocent people,” he said in a 2003 sermon. “God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme.”
In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001 that the United States had brought on al Qaeda’s attacks because of its own terrorism.
“We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye,” Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.
“We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America’s chickens are coming home to roost,” he told his congregation.
Sen. Obama told the New York Times he was not at the church on the day of Rev. Wright’s 9/11 sermon. “The violence of 9/11 was inexcusable and without justification,” Obama said in a recent interview. “It sounds like he was trying to be provocative,” Obama told the paper.
While parishioners ought not to be held responsible for all of the statements of their preachers, the extremity of Wright’s condemnation of white America at the least raises question of Obama’s judgment in being a member of this church.
If Obama has listened to this sort of extremism for twenty-years without serious complaint, then it is perfectly reasonable for American voters to be concerned about him.
From the articl Mickey linked to:
And guess who’s the most quoted theologian on the personal blog of WoW’s own Anthony Bradley? Yep. The same James Cone. And he doesn’t quote him to criticize him.
http://snipurl.com/21rpk
I provided the link in #26 so people could read the comments on Bradley’s latest post, where he’s praising another Liberation Theology adherent.
Pat Robertson and (if I recall correctly) Jerry Falwell agreed at one point that America brought 9/11 on itself because of its acceptance of abortion and homosexuality. They only backed off of that when they got pressured.
Wright’s identifying different things as evil (things which are, arguably, evil), but apart from that, how is the comment quoted in #25 any different?
Ree at #21: Steve, if a candidate was a member of Fred Phelps’ church and considered him a spiritual mentor, you wouldn’t consider that relevant to the campaign as long as the candidate qualified it by saying, “I don’t agree with everything Fred Phelps says.” Right.
Admittedly it would be hard to disconnect the two, but if the candidate didn’t seem to reflect Phelps’ radical homophobia, I’d try to. But there’s an important difference here: Wright preaches a great deal about things that nobody would find objectionable, and might even find praiseworthy. He identifies with the oppressed, as Jesus did. And yet, he still has these incendiary moments that are troubling. It’s a mixed bag.
There is no mixed bag with Phelps. It’s round-the-clock hate with him and his insane family.
I don’t think the two are really comparable
Steveg and company comments are ridiculous. Can you imagine the howls of outrage they would be making if a Republican candidate (say McCain) was found to be a long-standing member of an organization run by David Duke or some other KKK luminary, had attended and supported the organization and praised the leadership, had called that individual his ‘mentor’ and role model, etc., etc., ad nausem? And this unashamed friend/lover of brutal Jihadist killers that Obama idolizes makes David Duke and company look like Girl Scouts.
And the ridiculous reference to McCain and the Hagee situation as an attempt to ‘compare’ the two situations; what total absurdity. Steveg is intelligent enough to realize that there is NO comparison at all, yet brings it up anyway, to try to smoke-screen the bizaare truth about his candidate and to attempt to lose the focus on that mind-boggling truth.
The deafening silence from the controlled media and the usual rank hypocrisy (as from Steveg and others) on this issue and so many other issues involving Obama (like corruption) is really sickening.
That any citizen, liberal or conservative or in-between, would even consider allowing this bizaare radically far-left individual (Obama) getting within five hundred miles of the Presidency, is a sad commentary on the increasing degeneration of independent thinking in this country.
It is to the point where we have the bizaare situation where the media and so-called responsible people are calling for the election of an admitted and unashamed friend/ally of people who call for the utter destruction of America and the butchering of her people.
And the main level and focus of discourse is on how ‘photogenic’ and ‘oratical’ the man is, instead of what he represents, what he supports, what he has done, what he believes in.
C’mon, Steve. The one says “God hates fags.” The other says “God damn America.”
He says that America has done bad things and that it’s hollow to do these things blithely and assume that God must favor us no matter what just because we’re America.
If he’d put it mildly like that, nobody would have noticed. Sometimes it takes incendiary language to get people’s attention.
Of course we must remember that only people who wear flag pins and pretend America is perfect in every regard are true patriots.
It will be an injustice if Obama’s candidacy gets derailed because his pastor is not a milquetoast.
Wright preaches a great deal about things that nobody would find objectionable, and might even find praiseworthy.
SteveG, I didn’t realize that you’re so familiar with Wright’s preaching. Are you a member of his church, of do you just attend fairly regularly? What are some of your favorite Wright sermons?
“It will be an injustice if Obama’s candidacy gets derailed because his pastor is not a milquetoast.”
It might just be better for our country.
Whether you think it matters or not, associations matter.
It will be an injustice if Obama’s candidacy gets derailed because his pastor is not a milquetoast.
So anyone who doesn’t praise Louis Farrakhan and give him a Lifetime Achievement award is a milquetoast?
Wow.
Okay, lets just bump it down bit, what if McCain were a member of Hagee’s church instead of just getting an endorsment from him? I bet he also preaches a great deal about things that nobody would find objectionable, and might even find praiseworthy.
how can you even parse ‘god hates fags’ vs ‘god hates america’? Really. Who here can tell me why one is worse than the other.
I am fully aware that this phelps business and this louis farrakhan business and this jerome wright business and this hagee business are all red herrings so we don’t have to discuss that.
It’s clear that none of you are black. of course your politics reflect that (you get scared when the black folk be talkin’ bout ‘white america’ cause you know that means you).
black people’s politics reflect black interest and you don’t share that culture of interests. they want retribution, because they have been told they deserve that, and many whites have agree with them for a myriad reasons.
it seems that for many of y’all the status quo is preferable, no matter what happens, than handing over the keys to a former inmate. Paybacks are hell, I’ve heard.
Why won’t you be honest with yourselves about what ‘God Damn America’ means? it’s ironic to hear christianists say ‘god loves america and blesses it’ and on the other hand that ‘god is not happy with abortion, homosexuality immorality etc’ and never realizing that if your gods really were interested in punishing sin then they would be punishing america for all the things that you are complaining about and wish to change by contesting in the arena of ideas and policy. It is inconsistent to claim that God Loves America, but America Is In Sin, and finally God Hates Sin. a=b, b=c, a=c.
SteveG Of course we must remember that only people who wear flag pins and pretend America is perfect in every regard are true patriots.
This is a canard. No one on this blog, whether they wear flag pins or not, is claiming that America is perfect. Most on this blog know how to balance love of country with criticism of it.
Associations do matter. No they aren’t everything, but if I purposely put myself under someone’s teaching/preaching for 20 years, there is something that drew me there to start with. The longer I stay and listen the more my ideas reflect what I have been hearing for 20 years. Remember we are not just talking about Obama being fellow members of the same congregation with some controversial figure, that could be mere guilt by association.
A mentor figure in a person’s life has great influence and people don’t choose mentors who they have radical, fundamental disagreement with.
For more, see Alisa Harris’ roundup on this story at WORLD On the Web.
#25 Peter L.,
Yep. We should be concerned about Obama. We should also be concerned that after nominating a traitor last time, the socialists may sink below their low water mark with a Hillary and or Obama or both ticket
The statement “God bless America” is, to me, a prayer for my country. Do I think that America deserves blessing? No, but neither do I, and God blesses me anyway. Praying for God to damn America…?? I don’t think that is patriotic by any stretch of the imagination.
From the article Mickey linked to in #24:
In talking points listed on Trinity’s website, Wright states, “The vision statement of Trinity United Church of Christ is based upon the systematized liberation theology that started in 1969 with the publication of Dr. James Cone’s book Black Power and Black Theology.” Cone argued in his 1970 work, A Black Theology of Liberation, that “the goal of black theology is the destruction of everything white, so that blacks can be liberated from alien gods.” Cone rejected the “God of white seminaries” as a racist construction and argued that “God’s identity is revealed in the black struggle for freedom.”
Here’s another quote from Cone, who’s also one of Anthony Bradley’s favorite theologians, where Cone says the “white church” is the “enemy of Christ”, yea, even “a manifestation of anti-Christ”:
Y’know, BHO probably longs for the days when everyone thought he was a Muslim.
“how can you even parse ‘god hates fags’ vs ‘god hates america’? Really. Who here can tell me why one is worse than the other.”
One is worse than the other becasue there are more Americans than gays, plus gay Americans get hated twice.
Y’know, BHO probably longs for the days when everyone thought he was a Muslim.
LMBO!
I’ve been telling everyone he’s toast, that there’s no way he’ll be prez, and people thought I was nuts. But as more and more Americans find out about the man he calls his “hero” and “mentor”, and whose vile racist hate fueled sermons he sat under for 20 years, I’ll be proven right.
“It’s clear that none of you are black. of course your politics reflect that”
My son is part black. Are you black?
#12: A church that is “unapologetically Christian” shouldn’t be preaching hatred.
I assume you are talking about religious leaders who say 9/11 happened because of the gays and feminists, or Katrina was God’s punishment for New Orleans, don’t ask God for help if you teach evolution.
“how can you even parse ‘god hates fags’ vs ‘god hates america’? Really. Who here can tell me why one is worse than the other.”
One is worse than the other because there are more Americans than gays, plus gay Americans get hated twice.
The minister is damning America not the people who live in it. Coincidently, Canadians draw a similar line between the American people and the American government. Whereas God hates fags is a personal attack upon individuals and parts of their identity.
Whereas Falwell et al blamed specific people and their lifestyle for 9/11, Wright viewed 9/11 as payback for American foreign policy which he viewed as exploitative and oppressive. Again the personal vs the institutional.
I watched the video, read through the so-called outrages quotes posted here, and although I don’t agree with him and find his version of ethnographic history disingenuous, I really don’t understand the uproar. Its just liberation theology with a black dress.
Erasmus: It’s clear that none of you are black. of course your politics reflect that (you get scared when the black folk be talkin’ bout ‘white america’ cause you know that means you).
Fortunately, we have some black leaders including Bill Cosby, Shelby Steele, Thamas Sowell,and others who, fully aware of past injustices, argue that their people need to rise above racial victim hood and move ahead through hard, disciplined work and the content of their character. Sure it’s not easy for them given extant racism but that’s no excuse for self-defeating passionate rage.
Martin Luther King fought racial injustice fiercely without ever coming close to saying God Damn America.
Not one of these excellent black people would have subjected themselves to a preacher of Wright’s ilk.
“It’s clear that none of you are black.”
So that somehow invalidates our viewpoints, how?
Seems someone has forgotten what an ad hominem argument is.
#48. He said God damn America. You can’t damn a country. You damn people.
BTW I think Phelps is an idiot, but he is not the mentor and pastor of anyone who wants to be president.
KBells No I am not. I am ginger.
So Solon I see that you are going to avoid answering my question about what is wrong with those statements.
Now what you have described in #49 is an interesting observation. You have described some folks who from my perspective have decided that internal adjustments to the system are the main objective (to be successful, the inmates must join the zookeepers). This is compared to the group of blacks that believe that a system that is (at risk of the historical genetic fallacy) the modern manifestation of past injustice needs external revision (to be successful, the inmates must control the zoo and remove or marginalize the zookeepers).
I don’t see what first principles one could argue from to defend either position.
I do suspect that much of the anti-obama (or for that matter anti-hillary and to some extent the anti-McCain) rhetoric is founded upon this fundamental identity issue. you are much less likely, as a white man of your social stature (plus being a yankee) to support a candidate that resembles you, whether or not it is McCain.
I don’t see how
something got cut off
NIGHT TRAIN: Rev. Jeremiah Wright gave a Lifetime Achievement award to Louis Farrakhan
Untrue. There is a degree of separation. Trumpeter magazine gave an award to Farrakhan. Trumpeter is published and edited by Wright’s daughter.
PETER LEAVITT: . . . that’s no excuse for self-defeating passionate rage
Negroes don’t need to justify their anger. It’s a free country, and they get to choose how they will deal with it.
NIGHT TRAIN: Rev. Jeremiah Wright clearly filled with hatred of white people.
PETER LEAVITT: If any white candidate attended the mirror image of this church, he or she would have been tarred and feathered by the media.
By all accounts, this a a loving, multi-racial congregation, which belongs to an integrated denomination. Whites can belong to black culture, too. Black culture isn’t exclusively a “racial” identity — and it’s American as apple pie. Nobody, black or white, has to apologize for feeling closer to a Black church in Chicago than to his white Grandfather from Kansas.
#48: Whereas Falwell et al blamed specific people and their lifestyle for 9/11, Wright viewed 9/11 as payback for American foreign policy which he viewed as exploitative and oppressive.
So, one or both are ok or not ok?
You know that many Americans agreed with Falwell.
Are people saying that Obama should censor his pastor? Did Bush like Falwell?
LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD
Rev Jeremiah A. Wright’s
TRUMPETEER AWARD
Trumpet Gala 2007
LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD Rev Jeremiah A. Wright’s TRUMPETER AWARD
Watch the entire VIDEO, (several minutes long) at the end it is made CLEAR that the award was given by Rev Jeremiah A. Wright.
The magazine was founded by and is published by the church. Being a nepotist as well as a racist, Wright lets his daughter run the magazine. Wright made the choice, and he praised Farrakhan for his lifetime of work on behalf of black people.
NT
It was Wright who gave the award to Farrahkan not his daughter. Yes his daughter runs the magazine, but she did not issue nor give the award to Farrahkan.
Obama’s Minister Honored Farrakhan
Monday, January 14, 2008 7:49 PM
By: Ronald Kessler
Barack Obama’s longtime minister, mentor, and sounding board has been a key supporter of Louis Farrakhan and last month honored the Nation of Islam leader for lifetime achievement.
Farrakhan has repeatedly made hate-filled statements targeting Jews, whites, America, and homosexuals. He has called whites “blue-eyed devils” and the “anti-Christ.” He has described Jews as “bloodsuckers” who control the government, the media, and some black organizations.
“Do you know some of these satanic Jews have taken over BET [the Black Entertainment Network]?” Farrakhan said in a speech on Nov. 11, 2007. “Everything that we built, they have. The mind of Satan now is running the record industry, movie industry, and television. And they make us look like we’re the murderers; we look like we’re the gangsters, but we’re punk stuff.”
The month after that speech, Obama’s minister and friend, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. and his Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, honored Farrakhan at a gala, bestowing on him its Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Lifetime Achievement Trumpeteer award.
Obama has said he found religion through Wright in the 1980s and consulted him before deciding to run for president. He prayed privately with Wright before announcing his candidacy last year.
Victoria is not to be trusted.
Contrary to what she says, the publisher is Jeri L. Wright.
The video makes clear that the award was named after Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright, but doesn’t say it was given by him.
Lifetime Achievement
Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright
Trumpeteer Award
Victoria falsely inserts a possessive where none exists in the video: Jeremiah A. Wright’s Long after Jeremiah has passed on to his reward, and is no longer capable of making award, the magazine will continue to give the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Trumpeteer Award.
It will only be a problem if the media continues to focus on it (and does a good job of explaining how eggregious this place is). Given the general role of the press so far (as a full-fledged PR arm of the Obama campaign), it will likely be buried pretty quickly without any honest examination.
“You know that many Americans agreed with Falwell.”
But how many of them are mentoring a candidate for president?
Let’s let Obama speak for himself:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html
Some highlights:
Rev. Jeremiah Wright recently preached his last sermon.
“I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it’s on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.”
#61: targeting Jews, whites, America, and homosexuals.
He hates gays? I guess that means he can’t be all bad.
There is no reason to believe BHO, Scroop. His actions up to this point — sitting under the man’s teaching for 20 years, crediting Wright with his adopting Christianity, having Wright marry them and baptize their children — speak much too loudly to be covered by one little disclaimer.
yeah attacking jews gets you in the same club as billy graham
Scroop - 62
Did Newsmax.com get the story wrong? See my post 61
It doesn’t make one ‘lemon/lime’ of difference who’s dead, it is WHO IS ALIVE and authorized the award, and that was none other that Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. and his Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago.
This latest attack on Barack Obama is straight from the Republican Party playbook. Of course, the editors of WorldMag have been all to happy to do their part as a member of the Republican attack machine.
The thing is, the America people are sick and tired of this kind of crap. Yes, it got Bush into office twice, but there are growing signs that people have tired of the negative, personal attacks that the Republicans have become so infamous for.
ScroopMoth: By all accounts, this a a loving, multi-racial congregation, which belongs to an integrated denomination.
Trinity Church statement:
We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian… Our roots A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
In the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain “true to our native land,” the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
Interpret this however you might, though this church is clearly racist on the side of blacks. There are some other statements about following Christ, though the main theme is along racial lines. Note that unashamedly black comes before unapogetically Christian
Again any white candidate connected with such a racist church would long before now be tarred and feathered by the media.
Yes Anlir, it’s negative and you know WHY?
Wright uses foul language when he preaches, he authorized an AWARD to Farrakhan, who makes his views LOUD and CLEAR against Jews and WHITE’S.
It wouldn’t be relevant, except that Obama belongs to that church and has been a member for over 20 years. That changes everything, Obama is closely associated with Wright.
Obama who is running for the US Presidency must agree with his pastor or he wouldn’t stay in in church, and he also wouldn’t have consulted with Wright if he hadn’t thought his opinion was important:
It’s Obama’s choice to attend any church, or not attend. It is the choice of the American people to assess the reasons WHY a candidate for the Presidency would be connected in any way to a man who is attached to Farrakhan.
It wouldn’t be wise or prudent to dismiss the entire situation as being just a ‘negative’ there isn’t anything positive about Obama being the President of the United States.
See post 61 above.
A Spry Farrakhan Sings Obama’s Praises
Feb 24 10:40 PM US/Eastern
By SOPHIA TAREEN
Associated Press Writer
CHICAGO (AP) - In his first major public address since a cancer crisis, Nation of Islam Minister Louis Farrakhan said Sunday that presidential candidate Barack Obama is the “hope of the entire world” that the U.S. will change for the better.
Farrakhan compared Obama to the religion’s founder, Fard Muhammad, who also had a white mother and black father.
“A black man with a white mother became a savior to us,” he told the crowd of mostly followers.
Farrakhan rebuilt the Nation of Islam, which promotes black empowerment and nationalism, in the late 1970s after W.D. Mohammed, the son of longtime leader Elijah Mohammed, moved his followers toward mainstream Islam.
Farrakhan has drawn attention for calling Judaism a “gutter religion” and suggesting crack cocaine might have been a CIA plot to enslave blacks.
In response to RDean:
“#12: A church that is “unapologetically Christian” shouldn’t be preaching hatred.
I assume you are talking about religious leaders who say 9/11 happened because of the gays and feminists, or Katrina was God’s punishment for New Orleans, don’t ask God for help if you teach evolution.
Up to the words New Orleans — your assumption is correct. To assert such things was stupidity on the part of those persons, in my opinion. Your obsession with evolution will not be addressed by me.
And when you counter with something like your response to me, you are really avoiding having to deal with Obama and his pastor. That seems to be the liberals’ response overall.
(And I hope you remember that there was at least one thread on Hagee’s endorsement. It was not ignored.)
POLITICO
Wright leaves Obama campaign
March 14, 2008
Spokesman Tommy Vietor emails:
“Rev. Wright is no longer serving on the African American Religious Leadership Committee.”
That cuts Wright’s only formal tie to Obama, and answers what was sure to be a question in Obama’s interviews tonight: If Geraldine Ferraro had to leave the Clinton campaign, why is Wright different.
And what about the INFORMAL TIE?
Anlir, from the Hagge I hearts McCain Hagee tread post #24
“Rev. Hagee can endorse whomever he wants. It’s McCain I’m after for embracing a minister who preaches anti-Catholicism. It might not have been McCain’s smartest move, given the large number of Catholics in this country. McCain could have repudiated his endorsement as Obama did with Minister Farrakhan.”
This latest attack on John McCain is straight from the Democratic Party playbook. Of course, the Liberals of WorldMag have been all to happy to do their part as a member of the Democrat attack machine.
The thing is, the America people are sick and tired of this kind of crap. Yes, it got Clinton into office twice, but there are growing signs that people have tired of the negative, personal attacks that the Democrats have become so infamous for.
Sorry. That should be the Hagee Hearts McCain thread post #24
I took this from a press release, enjoy:
Rod Parsley, whom McCain has called a “spiritual guide” has in the past:
called hate crimes legislation a “deceptive ploy of [the] liberal, homosexual agenda.”
advocated criminal prosecution of adulterers.
compared Planned Parenthood to the Nazis. declared “I came to incite a riot! Man your battle stations! Ready your weapons! Lock and load!” at a “War on Christians” conference.
urged voters to “let the Reformation begin! Shout it like you’re going to carry the blood-stained banner of the cross of Christ the length and breadth of the Buckeye State!” at a political rally.
Not one to make a right-wing supporter feel left out, McCain said, “I am very proud to have Pastor John Hagee’s support.” Hagee has:
predicted God will allow terrorists to strike the United States if the government is insufficiently supportive of Israel.
preached that US invasion of Iran is foretold in the book of Esther.
claimed that George Washington designed the Great Seal of the United States to include a hidden menorah in the eagle’s tail feathers.
accused the Catholic of joining with Hitler in “a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews.”
argued that “Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans.”
(NOTE: Below are excerpts for the article)
The Wall Street Journal
Obama and the Minister
By RONALD KESSLER
March 14, 2008; Page A19
Concluding, Mr. Wright said: “We started the AIDS virus . We are only able to maintain our level of living by making sure that Third World people live in grinding poverty. . . .”
Considering this view of America, it’s not surprising that in December Mr. Wright’s church gave an award to Louis Farrakhan for lifetime achievement. In the church magazine, Trumpet, Mr. Wright spoke glowingly of the Nation of Islam leader. “His depth on analysis [sic] when it comes to the racial ills of this nation is astounding and eye-opening,” Mr. Wright said of Mr. Farrakhan. “He brings a perspective that is helpful and honest.”
After Newsmax broke the story of the award to Farrakhan on Jan. 14, Mr. Obama issued a statement. However, Mr. Obama ignored the main point: that his minister and friend had spoken adoringly of Mr. Farrakhan, and that Mr. Wright’s church was behind the award to the Nation of Islam leader.
“As for Mr. Wright’s repeated comments blaming America for the 9/11 attacks because of what Mr. Wright calls its racist and violent policies, Mr. Obama has said it sounds as if the minister was trying to be “provocative.”
“Hearing Mr. Wright’s venomous and paranoid denunciations of this country, the vast majority of Americans would walk out. Instead, Mr. Obama and his wife Michelle have presumably sat through numerous similar sermons by Mr. Wright.”
“Indeed, Mr. Obama has described Mr. Wright as his “sounding board” during the two decades he has known him. Mr. Obama has said he found religion through the minister in the 1980s. He joined the church in 1991 and walked down the aisle in a formal commitment of faith.”
“The title of Mr. Obama’s bestseller “The Audacity of Hope” comes from one of Wright’s sermons. Mr. Wright is one of the first people Mr. Obama thanked after his election to the Senate in 2004. Mr. Obama consulted Mr. Wright before deciding to run for president. He prayed privately with Mr. Wright before announcing his candidacy last year.”
#74: And when you counter with something like your response to me, you are really avoiding having to deal with Obama and his pastor.
That is because many people are trying to insist that Obama (voice filled with mocking derision) is responsible for what one of the pastors of his church says. How old is that pastor? What has he endured during his life that makes him highly suspicious of white people?
Think about it.
During his lifetime, the US government let hundreds of blacks purposely suffer from syphilis for generations, which ruined the lives of their wives and descendents. How can this be????
http://www.tuskegee.edu/global/Story.asp?s=1209870
Look at what happened to MLK.
Old black people and children was fire hosed and set upon by fierce dogs during peaceful marches where all they wanted were equal rights.
Driving while black.
White only lunch counters, back of the bus, white only bathrooms, white only drinking fountains, segregated schools, dances and sports.
Come on now. If whites had been treated like this, would be all “forgive and forget”???? Get real now. How many generations would it take before you could get past the suspicion????
If you look at the pastor’s website, it’s all about self-reliance and other conservative values. That’s the funny thing.
Don’t forget to mention a History of Slavery.
(Once again voice dripping with mocking derision) You guys try this desperate ploy of guilt by association. Only you don’t condemn McCain, why? Because you agree this his “pastor’s” views. PA–THE–TIC!!!!
Only you don’t condemn McCain, why? Because you agree this “his” pastor’s views.
Right Victoria?
RDean, since you don’t understand that Christianity you call “magical mysticism,” let me explain it to you. It doesn’t matter what any Christian, black, white, green, blue, etc., goes through. It matters how that person reacts to these events. Rev. Wright does not react with Christian love. I’m not seeing the likeness to Christ in Rev. Wright at all.
I don’t know Hagee’s views, except that he makes anti-Catholic statements. I certainly do not agree with all things Catholic, but they are entitled to their beliefs. Hagee is not McCain’s personal pastor. Wright is Obama’s personal pastor. Big difference.
Major Garrot just interviewed Obama on Fox News. Obama was once again honest and truthful. Fox viewers aren’t used to that.
After that, Alan asked the panel about John McCain’s “spiritual” advisor Rod Parsley and played clips of his “sermons”. What a creep. Of course, the panel said this is only about Obama, and not McCain. Conservatives are just too much.
PETER LEAVITT: Again any white candidate connected with such a racist church would long before now be tarred and feathered by the media.
You’ll have to explicate reasons for calling this a “racist church.” That’s a serious accusation with enormous consequences, so you have an obligation to back it up or suffer the censure that is due to false witnesses.
What about orthodox jews. Are they racist too?
You ignored my point about the non-racial aspects of black culture. Many white-skinned people are members of black communities.
Lastly, blacks and whites aren’t equivalent in their relation to history, power, and privilege, and can be treated according to their due without being treated the “same.” They’re contemporaries, yet live in distinct dispensations.
I’ve met blacks who hate whites, but very few, even including one-time followers of Farrakhan, who were racists. By contrast, I know whites of wealth, power, and influence who are unreconstructed racists.
Barrack is not going to turn his back on Rev. Wright the man. He calls him a beloved uncle, and says Wright’s anger helped Barrack’s generation to reach a different stage of the black journey.
Wright was intemperate and may not enter the Promised Land with Barrack, but his staff led many people through the wilderness.
#71 Solon assumes the role of a bully that is sorry for stealing lunch money and beating up neighborhood kids because they are now more powerful than him. The posturing of those attempting to wield political and social tools that were forged in another era for a more subdued race
#80 Donato of course the question is do blacks have a right to feel this way? And if we examine this question seriously, we realize that this question is not the property of blacks alone but is a legitimate question for many groups and cultures. As I alluded to Solon, question the system built by whites is not, in principle, the same as questioning whites themselves. The next observation is indeed that many whites and blacks both conflate these two issues.
#82 even though on many levels I completely agree with you regarding ‘how one reacts to events’. Of course the appropriate (and I will argue, non-trivial) rejoinder to that comment is that you are speaking from the seat of white privilege. It is only natural that you feel the way that you do and that this is your opinion. It is what you are expected to do as a white man. The temptation is to conflate historical with ontological priority.
#84 I don’t understand your definition of racist. I would suggest that this term is rather useless since it carries much baggage and hidden assumptions that tend to color perceptions much more than necessary.
#86: do blacks have a right to feel this way?
http://www.tuskegee.edu/global/Story.asp?s=1209870
MLK
Slavery
segregation
white only
I would say, “yes”.
#82: I don’t know Hagee’s views, except that he makes anti-Catholic statements. I certainly do not agree with all things Catholic, but they are entitled to their beliefs. Hagee is not McCain’s personal pastor. Wright is Obama’s personal pastor. Big difference.
Oh no there’s not. You can’t get away with this one. Ignorance is no excuse. You can’t say you don’t know and then say, “Big Difference”. McCain seeks the endorsement of Hagee, but calls, “ROD PARSLEY” his “spiritual advisor”. You better check that guy out before you make such statements. Let’s not get lazy. Study who you defend.
rac·ist [ ráyssist ]
adjective
Definition:
1. based on racism: based on prejudices and stereotypes related to race
2. prejudiced against other races: prejudiced against all people who belong to other races
noun (plural rac·ists)
Definition:
racist person: somebody who hates others who are not of his or her own race
#86, the racists I know believe/d that people descended from Africans or Native Americans have brains that suit them for separate or inferior roles and status. I don’t think I’ve ever met someone who really believed the same about whites, although some are so angry they think whites have inherited a special streak of evil. Black perceptions of racism are too vast, intricate, and aspective to summarize. The term I hear more than racist is “bigoted.”
PETER LEAVITT needs to explicate his accusation of racism.
#89 don’t hold your breath for anything substantial. Harrumphs and shifts of weight perhaps but nothing of merit.
I think ‘racist’ and ‘bigot’ are empty vessels. Technically, even according to the first definition in 88, anyone who even recognizes racial differences is a racist. a bigot is one who differentiates. i submit that everyone does this and what we mean by ‘racist’ or ‘bigot’ is something different from the simple fact that differences are obvious between humans with different ancestries or cultural origins.
#87 My point is that if we grant blacks the ‘right to feel this way’ then this opens the question of ‘who else has the right to feel this way’, and that is a threat to White Power indeed. For if we closely examine this question, ultimately we find that it is entirely subjective. for instance poor whites have been exploited in coal mining Appalachia in ways that blacks have never been exploited. We might also draw the parallels to Cromwell and the Ulster Scots displacing native pagan irish. the crucial question becomes ‘Who is the power’? and I suggest that the answer to this is whoever identifies themselves with established power.
This i think is satisfactory because it provides an explanation for Solon’s list of black folk like Bill Cosby. These are folks like Bryant Gumbel, Cleveland from Family Guy, Token from South Park, Uncle Tom, House negroes, etc etc. It’s not a fundamental difference in philosophy as NJL has recommended (controlling personal reactions) but it is a sycophantic relation to established power. Blacks who take identity seriously view Alan Keyes and Bill Cosby or whoever as sell outs. Are they right?
Perhaps. What we have now obtained is a narrative that does not rely on the differentiation of black or white but something that more or less resembles the relations of marx. and it works as a heuristic for understanding why 1) some blacks defect to white issues, 2) some whites feel threatened by black independence and 3) solutions are not immediately forthcoming.
NJLawyer at #82: Hagee is not McCain’s personal pastor.
But Rod Parsley is. See #78.
I saw some of the videos of Rev. Wright today and I really don’t see what the big fuss is about.
Well, actually I do. He dared to call America out for moral evil and be black while doing so. When Billy Graham said, “If God doesn’t judge America for its immorality, he owes Sodom and Gomorrah an apology,” I didn’t hear conservative Christians object.
When Jerry Falwell,speaking of 9/11, said, “I really believe that the Pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians, … the ACLU, People For the American Way - all of them who have tried to secularize America - I point the finger in their face and say ‘you helped this happen,” conservative Christians smiled and nodded.
I could find a hundred similar quotes from white evagelicals, and many people here would agree with them, or at least, not find them offensive.
Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., formerly an active duty marine. I read that but couldn’t find anything about his military record.
I wonder if he belonged to an integrated unit?
To whites, saying aids was created to devestate the black community is a stretch. But to him, he remembers this story right out of the newspaper as part of his daily news, not some historical event:
http://www.tuskegee.edu/global/Story.asp?s=1209870
As Obama pointed out, he, Obama, feels that he has opportunities and feels he is part of the American Dream, but Rev. Wright comes from a generation of segregation and Jim Crowe. A generation where the US goverments let hundreds of African Americans suffer the tragic effects of syphilis for generations even when they HAD A CURE!!!! Can you ever trust a goverment that would do something like that to your people? No wonder he believes whites started Aids.
Conservatives are desperatly clinging to this story even when they know it’s wrong. It’s part of the racism. A double standard. All of the clips played of Wright are from two sermons chosen from over 36 years of sermons. It’s just pathetic.
I wonder how many of those condeming him are “former marines”? Hmmm.
rdean - Conservatives digging into a story about a liberal candidate with very tight ties to unsavory people is bad. Liberals digging into a story about a conservative candidate with very tight ties to unsavory people is good. Your hypocricy is rank.
KRM, in politics there’s more than enough hypocrisy to go around. Conservatives do what you’re describing all the time.
My hypocricy????
I suspect that none of the “unsavory” people that McCain has close ties to have ever had be called the n word. What do ya think? I wonder if Wright was ever turned away from a “white” only lunch counter, made to ride in the back of a bus or was attacked for drinking at a “white only” fountain? What do ya think? He is the right age. Do these experieces make him “unsavory”?
This was personal history for Wright. It happened during his lifetime. Crap, it happened during our lifetime: During his lifetime, the US government let hundreds of blacks purposely suffer from syphilis for generations, which ruined the lives of their wives and descendents. How can this be????
http://www.tuskegee.edu/global/Story.asp?s=1209870
How do you rationalize that? After living this type of history and being in the marines, how is he “unsavory”? I just don’t understand heartless and thoughtless conservatives. It’s like many don’t have a soul.
Has anyone been able to search out the results of Michelle Obama’s religious affiliation before she married Barack Hussein Obama? Did Michelle go to Sunday School or attend a Christian Church or was she affiliated with ‘another religion’?
Has anyone been able to research the results of Obama’s attending his mother’s funeral? As I have read she passed away last year.
Was Obama’s mother a Muslim? I understand she died of cancer. Was she buried in the Muslim tradition?
Was Obama’s father and step-father Muslim? Did Obama’s step father teach him in the ways of Islam?
If Barack Hussein Obama’s parents were Muslim, would they have raised him as a Christian? Has anyone researched this information?
I haven’t found anything yet about Michele Obama’s religion. The articles I’ve found only deal with the time she’s been Mrs. Obama. But since she was born and raised on the South Side of Chicago, I’d say it’s unlikely her background was anything but Christian.
Obama’s mother died in 1995, not last year. He has described her as a Christian, though apparently not particularly devout. His father was “not very religious,” according to Obama, and never practiced Islam. He barely knew his step-father and was raised from the age of 10 on by his mother’s parents. He was not raised to be particularly religious, but certainly not as a Muslim.
See this article, and this one.
“Has anyone researched this information?” Have you heard of Google? Obama’s background and family history are well documented. Not to mention, it’s been discussed extensively in this and other Obama threads here.
Her religion prior to meeting him, I mean.
Grr it’s late and I forgot an important point: Obama’s mother, Ann Dunham, was a white woman from Kansas. Not really a hotbed of Islamic infiltration, especially in the 1940s and ’50s when she was born and grew up.
Obama on Pastor’s controversial statements: ‘If I had heard them repeated, I would’ve quite’ the Church
Why didn’t Obama quit the Church after his friend Rev. Wright and the Church gave Farrakhan the AWARD, wouldn’t that have been a clue?
How many average US citizens reading this, find Obama to be ’slow’ to see what might be a problem, that is unless it might affect his becoming a President of the USA?
The man Barrack Hussein Obama had no knowledge of what his pastor taught Sunday after Sunday? Why didn’t he know after twenty (20) years? Did Obama miss Church every time a message was given that would have made him ‘think’ about where he was attending church, and what was ‘REALLY’ being taught?
The inconsistencies….. just wait till you hear the rest. Obama just wiggles around every question.
And FOX NEWS is where Obama heard about these statements and if he had known about them, he would have spoken up. FOX NEWS gives out news which can’t be found elsewhere the remarks made by Obama are very enlightening. TAKE NOTE.
Victoria
In your excitement I am sure that you have just forgotten to explain why we should give a flying rat’s sacrum what any preacher any where has to say about anything.
We’ll be waiting.
Obama is done. The “dream” is over. Democrats are insane enough that he could still get the nomination, but he hasn’t got a chance of winning in November.
He hasn’t got a chance, but maybe he still has a prayer. If “Reverend” Wright prays hard enough to Black Jesus, and tell hims that poor, underprivileged Obama is suffering the same things he did at the hands of those nasty Italians, Black Jesus just might reach down and smite his oppressors.
But I doubt it.
What we’re witnessing on WorldMag (and across the right-wing blogosphere) is an attempted Republican high-tech lynching of a black man. The Republican party has issued the marching orders to get Obama by any means necessary, and WorldMag is complying.
Anyone who thinks racism is no longer a part of conservative Christianity has only to read the comments on WorldMag to know it’s alive and still kicking.
rdean - every culture in recorded history has had slavery (or functionally equivilent caste systems). One culture, of its own volition eleiminated slavery - Western culture, with Britain and the US in the forefront of the movement. Wright is railing against the only culture to end the practice he abhors, because the problem wasn’t immediately resolved to his satisfaction (if it is even possible that he would be satisfied by anything).
Wright should recognize the good side and work toward furthering it. The venom he spews perpetuates and exacerbates the very problem he decries.
For Obama, this is perfect timing. Had these stories broke and gathered legs in January, it’s questionable if he wins Iowa, and questionable if he carries momentum into some of the other states that he carried during his streak.
Instead, this church flare-up occurs during the political seventh inning stretch - mid March. There are no significant primaries upcoming and he has a comfortable lead. Even the crises seem to be going his way!
And it’s certainly much better to have all this controversy and media flare up now, rather than in October/November. Assuming he goes on to get the nomination, this story will be old and dead by then.
What we’re witnessing on WorldMag (and across the right-wing blogosphere) is an attempted Republican high-tech lynching of a black man. The Republican party has issued the marching orders to get Obama by any means necessary, and WorldMag is complying.
Could we get a nurse in her to adjust Anlir’s morphine drip?
And it’s certainly much better to have all this controversy and media flare up now, rather than in October/November. Assuming he goes on to get the nomination, this story will be old and dead by then.
In Obama’s dreams. This story has legs, and if he gets the nod we’ll be hearing plenty about it come Sep/Oct.
Besides, this is just the tip of the iceberg. His claim that he was unaware of Wright’s racist views is a bald faced lie. It ain’t just Wright, if you watch the video. His assistant pastors were slapping him on the back, people were standing and cheering. Nobody was walking out.
Obama was the president of the Harvard Law Review and yet he’s ignorant of his church’s basic beliefs? These rants of Wright’s are simply him expouding on their basic beliefs, as their website makes clear. Wright says right on their website that the foundation of the church doctrines is James Cone’s black liberation theology. Cone says “the white man is the devil” in one of his books, and there’s plenty more where that came from. Obama is simply lying through his teeth about not knowing about and never having heard Wright’s beliefs on this subject before. Like I said, the stuff we’ve seen in the past few days is just the tip of the iceberg. You can bet a lot more will be dredged up come September if he’s the nominee.
And it’s certainly much better to have all this controversy and media flare up now, rather than in October/November. Assuming he goes on to get the nomination, this story will be old and dead by then.
I hope so, but I’m pretty sure some 527 group will run the videos in TV ads starting in September if Obama gets the the nominations.
That’s what bothers me about it … not that it says anything about Obama’s own beliefs, but that people who are happy to pander to racism and fear will use it.
Although I suppose the upside to that is that people who are likely to be persuaded by racism and fear probably were not supporting Obama to begin with, so maybe the effect would be small.
When the going gets rough Anlir resorts to his tiresome chestnut of the evil religious folk on WorldMag blog.
Anlir - What makes you think thos one came from the Right (rather than Hilary)?
Although I suppose the upside to that is that people who are likely to be persuaded by racism and fear probably were not supporting Obama to begin with, so maybe the effect would be small.
On the contrary, I’d say it’s pretty clear that the racially-motivated are behind BHO big-time.
I think the black leadership in this country should call an emergency summit to discuss the following:
1. The racism inherent in the Republican party.
2. Issue a reminder to the Democratic party that it is not in their best interest to allow the party to be divided by race (or gender).
3. Remind the Democratic and Republican parties that if they allow the hightech lynching of Barack to continue there will be massive black protests at both conventions.
There were many of us who knew that if Barack continued to do well that at some point the racists would come after him. We’re seeing that unfold in the last few days.
Anlir, the reason that people are concerned about Rev. Wright is his patent racism against white people and the question of Obama’s relation to him.
Had Condoleeza Rice or Colin Powell been a candidate for the presidency, most Republicans would have considered them on their merits without respect to race. Personally, I would have gladly voted for either one of them, as they are both moderate conservatives.
The issue of Wright’s clear racism and its possible influence on Obama is a quite legitimate issue. Your reduction of this issue to blatant racism against blacks is a vacuous canard.
Rather than making easy assumptions about the motives of those concerned about Wright, you might get involved in the real issues of the debate.
Anlir - I think the black leadership in this country should call an emergency summit to discuss:
1. The widespread rampant racism in the black community (most non-blacks really don’t have any problem with any blacks who want to get with the program and be Americans - the separatists and anti-American thread in the victimology club rubs a lot of non-black the wrong way).
2 To decide whether they want to be a part of the US or Africa (and act accordingly - if the US, quit whinning and start following the path to success that every other downtrodden minority has followed here * if Africa, go back, there isn’t anyone here in America who is required to stay).
Obama has baggage, and isn’t quite ready for the big leagues of national politics. He has the potential, but he doesn’t have the seasoning. It isn’t racism to oppose a candidate who stands for all the political positions one opposes. A no candidate for national office here is going to get a pass because of his/her race or gender. Politics has always been rough, and Obama (or Ms. Clinton) should not get special treatment due to race/gender.
#105: rdean - every culture in recorded history has had slavery (or functionally equivilent caste systems). One culture, of its own volition eleiminated slavery - Western culture, with Britain and the US in the forefront of the movement. Wright is railing against the only culture to end the practice he abhors, because the problem wasn’t immediately resolved to his satisfaction (if it is even possible that he would be satisfied by anything).
I guess there is a point burred here but I am, pardon the word, mystified, as to what it is.
Too bad the racism didn’t stop when slavery ended. Doncha thinK? Or not.
During his lifetime, the US government let hundreds of blacks purposely suffer from syphilis for generations, which ruined the lives of their wives and descendents. How can this be????
http://www.tuskegee.edu/global/Story.asp?s=1209870
113. 1. The racism inherent in the Republican Party.
The problem is they can’t see it. They don’t believe it exists. Look at Ferraro. She says Obama got where he is because he’s black. He graduated magna cum laud from Harvard near the top of his class. He had the most prestigious job at Harvard as the Harvard Law review editor. He could have had any job on Wall Street, but instead, chose community activism. He taught Constitutional Law for a couple of years at the University of Illinois. Wrote two best selling books. Was elected to the Senate in a landslide.
All of these achievements and yet, he got to where he is because he is black. This is called “institutional racism”. If a white guy had these same achievements, no one would question his qualifications.
What if Bush had these achievements? Instead of below average grades at Harvard where his father got him in and his one noticeable accomplishment was that he was a drunken cheerleader. How can they put down Obama and laud Bush and say it’s not racism????
It seems conservatives have driven out anyone with a touch of sense out of the Republican Party. What’s left is the dregs. They celebrate the mediocre. They believe dinosaurs were on Noah’s Ark. I guess it’s to be expected. Hey, anyone hear from General Petreaus lately? You might want to check that out.
#114: Had Condoleeza Rice or Colin Powell been a candidate for the presidency,
Republicans will never elect Powell. He’s black. Don’t pretend otherwise. All you to look at was the Texas Delegation during the last Republican Convention to know that. Heads bowed in protest as he spoke.
Rice is probably gay considering her background. So many questions are raised, conservatives would never accept her. Woman, black and probably gay.
#48 — you can damn a country, you can damn just about anything including my old care, the on again off again gas fireplace and Windows operating system.
#56 to damn or criticize an institution is a far more rational response to the wrongs that have occurred then to blame a person or a group of people. Hence Wright’s view is far more acceptable than Falwell.
#61 Victoria, there’s no need to insert an anti-Semitic quote by Farrakhan into the story since the quote was not related to the award. Its an attempt to smear by association to the second or third degree of separation. In your subsequent posts you seem to have a real hate on for Obama — why? — do you feel threatened.
Wright’s theological basis is liberation theology and isn’t much different from the Latin American variety developed by Catholic priests. In both cases, Christianity was seen to be a liberating and empowering experience for the poor and marginalized. With Wright, the message is tailored towards the African American experience. Call it niche marketing but not racism.
The dominant strains of American Protestantism are tailored for the white middle class suburban experience. Call it niche marketing but its not racism.
The United States is “the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.” MLK,Jr. April, 1967.
We forgive him his calumnies because, unlike Jeremiah Wright, he was assassinated.
Anlir,
So calling out someone else’s racism is itself racism? Huh? Are you one of those people who thinks that blacks cannot be racist, but that nearly all white people are?
It is very, very relevant that a man who wants to be president of this country (president of everyone, including its majority white population) has willingly sat under a hate-mongering, anti-American racist. It certainly isn’t racism to point it out, either–it would be pandering not to, actually.
Taking Clarence Thomas’s term of “high-tech lynching” and applying it to strong evidence of prejudice and racism is ridiculous. It sounds a little too much like Hillary’s accusation of a vast right-wing conspiracy. Yes, black people can be racists. Yes, Obama’s pastor probably is a racist black man. And yes, it matters to this election and to this country.
#119: We forgive him his calumnies because, unlike Jeremiah Wright, he was assassinated.
You sound sad.
Yes, RDEAN, I’m exceedingly bitter about this.
CHERYL D.: Yes, black people can be racists. Yes, Obama’s pastor probably is a racist black man. And yes, it matters to this election and to this country.
Black people can be prejudiced but they can hardly be racists, because they don’t have the power to control whites.
White people may not be prejudiced but they use cultural tools that control blacks, so they can practice racism.
When you call Wright a racist, Cheryl, you need to explicate. You know liberals are stupid, but you insist on talking straight over our heads. Break it down, please. Tell me, “Wright is a racist because he said X. Saying X is racist because . . .”
TRAVIS: Assuming he goes on to get the nomination, this story will be old and dead by then.
Which is why you conservatives need to put your money where your mouth is. Some 527 groups can bring this back to life. Think about it, do you want to answer to Christ for not swiftboating Obama? Give until it hurts, please!
“Are you questioning Barrack Obama’s Christianity?
I guess we should go along with anything Obama says no matter how shallow, impractical or just plain stupid to avoid being called a racist. I put him down because I think his policies will be bad for our country. You know being called names by people whose opinions I don’t respect is not as important to me as my child’s future.
Other than our disagreement on this issue and the fact that we are conservative Christians what evidence do you have that we are racists.
Scroop Moth,
The line that you must have “power” to be a racist is dumb. (I’m not saying you’re dumb; I’ve seen this line a lot, and it’s hogwash.) And the idea that the average white person in America has “power” is also dumb. I, for instance, don’t. Do you? And wouldn’t power over fellow blacks work, if power were relevant to the definition? (Farrakhan is a racist, by any definition, though he has little direct power over whites.) A manager of a large company who makes decisions to hire and fire has some power, sure–but so does a pastor, right? So does a Senator who is running for President!!
So, if I don’t have any power to control blacks, and I don’t, I therefore can’t be a racist according to you. What a load off my shoulder! Most racist black people wouldn’t let us whites off so easy.
All right, here’s how I’d define these terms. I’m a little rusty, though I’ve done this before:
stereotype: A simple way to categorize a person based on the general truths (or beliefs that may or may not be true) of people in that group. Stereotypes aren’t always wrong, and they’re natural to human thinking. “Men are stronger than women” is a stereotype–usually but not always true. Stereotypes are useful at their root (people who smile are friendly), but we need to be willing to transcend them.
prejudice: deciding ahead of time that a person from a specific group will have characteristics of that group, and judging him accordingly–”Oh, all men are like that.”
racism: deciding that members of a different racial group are evil (ugly, stupid, etc.) based on perceived characteristics of that group, and showing (or feeling) hatred based on your perception rather than on the individual person’s merits. It’s racism to add five years to a prison term because of a person’s race; it’s not racist to want the person to serve jail time because of his actions, if you’d desire the same thing for someone else in a different group.
By the way, the “white people have power, and black people don’t” line is largely false. Would Obama be a serious contender today if he were white? Probably not–he doesn’t have the necessary experience. Would O. J. Simpson have walked out a free man if he were white? Probably not–the evidence was damning, but he was black and had “white-guilt power” and money. Also, in an era when white people sometimes toe the line for fear of black riots, well, I really don’t think that saying white people have power and black people do not is reasonable at all, even if it is a necessary prerequisite for racism!
So, in short, a person who hates all (or most) people of another race simply because they belong to that race, and openly or subtly displays that hatred, is racist, whether or not they have much “power” to back up that hatred. The “must have power” was a useful, liberal addition to the definition of racism specifically added to free black people to be racists. It is not a useful or true part of the definition, and I think I’ve fairly proven it’s not a useful part of black/white reality, either.
Let me get this straight…If you’re Republican and challenge something said by an African-American, you’re racist. (Or maybe you’re just racist because you’re Republican, I don’t know)
If you’re black and Democrat, you can say whatever hateful thing you want about whites, Jews, hispanics etc, because after all you have been mistreated all your life by whites.
I wouldn’t care if Obama was green with pink polka- dots, white or a woman, I hate his ideas (the few that he has actually expressed). I am allowed to disagree with him and question his beliefs even if he’s black. This man wants to be president!
If someone wants to call me racist, they would have a hard time proving it.
Oh come on. You honestly expect us to believe he could be green with pink polka dots and you’d have no problem with it?
When whites use cultural tools that control blacks, individual whites don’t boss Negroes the same as they did in the 60’s, but individual whites benefit from cultural institutions that control blacks with differential effect.
The police protect and service you, but the police want young black men to feel that they have a target on their backs. This is rational behavior, I suppose. They are more afraid of black men. Police will let a white man stand behind his car while they make a black man lie face down on the street with his pants down.
The police have never “serviced” me, and I wouldn’t allow it if they asked.
Scroop Moth: The police protect and service you, but the police want young black men to feel that they have a target on their backs. This is rational behavior, I suppose. They are more afraid of black men. Police will let a white man stand behind his car while they make a black man lie face down on the street with his pants down.
Oh come on, you know that never happens in America! We eliminated all our racial problems a century ago!
(By the way, what is a “scroop moth?” I’ve long wondered.)
129 & 131. How often does it happen?
Not that I don’t believe you. I’m sure it happens.I just want to know if it standard operating procedure taught in the academy or have a few cops been caught doing it and reprimanded or something in between.
Wright: ….. ‘U.S. of KKKA’ knew about Pearl Harbor, etc., etc.
Below are a NEW SERIES of CLIPS from Wright’s sermons.
Obama missed all these sermons?
Victoria what is exactly that is wrong with these sayings? I think I understand but I’d rather hear it you know firsthand.
#124: “Are you questioning Barrack Obama’s Christianity?
“Yeah”
Come on Victoria. Seriously. Take a long hard look in the mirror.
I went to a Catholic School. I no longer believe in mysticism, however, working for years as a volunteer, I do know and have met Christians that I believe are very good people and I feel extremely grateful to have known them and to call them friend.
I feel I have some experience judging what a “good person” is. You are certainly not one of them. The things you have written in the past are simply shocking. I don’t understand how you can decide whether someone is or isn’t a Christian since your own values are so suspect.
I once asked you to write a piece describing “heaven”. Somehow, I get the feeling if you did, it would be a “restricted area” allowing only the “right” kind of people to enter. I have never personally met a Christian who so decided they are God’s “mouthpiece” on earth. It must be a huge responsibility.
#134: Obama missed all these sermons?
Vicki, Vicki, Vicki. How can you maintain the ignorance?
First, all these “sermons” are clips that came from only two sermons. Watch it again. It’s so obvious.
—-“The government lied about Pearl Harbor. They knew the Japanese were going to attack. Government’s lied.”
We pretty much know this to be a historical fact. FDR realized that we needed to be involved fighting the Japanese because they were taking over all of Asia. However, the American public didn’t want another war since we were already fighting in Europe. If you read the story, “The Court Martial of Billy Mitchell”, you will get a pretty good idea of why. Those records are still classified today.
—-“The government lied about the Tuskegee experiment. They purposely infected African-American men with syphilis …”
The US government did not treat hundreds of African Americans who had contracted syphilis from 1932 until the early seventies. It was called the “Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment”. The disease was spread to wives and children for generations and the US Government had the cure all the time. Bill Clinton apologized to black Americans in 1978 for one of the most disgraceful and disgusting episodes in our nations history.
Since Pearl Harbor is only speculation, I can understand if you did not know about it. But to not know about Tuskegee is unforgivable. Shame.
“Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment” is but one part of that clip. And yes Bill Clinton apologized for what happened. It was a terrible thing for anyone to have done to another person, no matter what color their skin.
I posted the clip. The rest of his rant is just that. He also used the LORD’s name, vain over and over again.
Read the rest of the RANTING I posted, and watch the clip.
If I had left out “Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment” you would still be whining, its in the clip, no way to remove it.
Rev. Wright came from a different generation. A generation where black leaders were murdered. Where young black men were lynched. Where the US Government performed syphilis experiments on unsuspecting black men, women and children. Where lunch counters, restrooms, drinking fountains and even our institutions, schools and the military were segregated.
In the thirties, a famous black singer, Bessie Smith was stabbed and died outside of a hospital that refused to admit her for being black. Even in the sixties, black singers such as Sammy Davis Jr. and Diane Carroll were forced to enter buildings from the service entrance and not allowed in the main room other than to “entertain”.
Naturally, his view of America would not be the same as, say, George Bush or white Americans who never suffered any of these indignities. I don’t understand how Conservatives can be so heartless, especially since they are always pretending to be Christian and understanding. What a bunch of hypocrites.
#138: its in the clip, no way to remove it.
Why would you want to? Oh, I get it. You want to skew the truth. Typical.
Rdean re: #116 - Ferraro is a Democrat (former member of Congress as a Democarat, former candidate for VP as a Democarat and former part of Hilary Clinton’s Presidential campaign as a Democarat). Her actions/thoughts certainly can’t be charged against the Republicans.
Do you want me to acknowledge that the Democratic Party is full of racists? OK, there do seem to be a lot of them there. The GOP has some too. It seems to be a wash as far as percentages in each party (I work in politics with people of both parties - actually, more Democrats than Republicans, now that I think about it).
And I noted that the problems with race did not end when Western culture became the first to end slavery. Problems don’t get slved instantly. But the race victimology lobby can’t see that our Western culture is the only one that got past slavery on its own and it is progressing steadily - though unevenly - to eliminate racism. Instead of seeing the good (better than any other culture in recorded history) they make Western culture to be wholly evil because it is not yet perfect.
Wright - having seen how bad it was - ought to see how much better it has gotten and know that his racist rhetoric is slowing progress down instead of contirbuting to it.
#141: Wright - having seen how bad it was - ought to see how much better it has gotten and know that his racist rhetoric is slowing progress down instead of contirbuting to it.
I’m still trying to figure out what his “racist” rhetoric is. What he’s talked about is his personal experiences over the course of his life. Is that racist? Just the “Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment” is so horrific, that would certainly scar someone for life. Could you imagine if black doctors let syphilis run wild over generations in white people while they had the cure to stop it, but didn’t. Because they wanted to “see” what would happen? Would you ever trust those black people, ever? And then a black person calls you racist for not trusting black people? It’s insane.
Obama says he has a different mindset because he has opportunities that other black Americans haven’t had in the past. He understands where Rev. Wright is coming from. And still white people are throwing race at him. AND having the NERVE and the GALL to call him racist. His mother is white. Come on, how low can you go?
#141: Her actions/thoughts certainly can’t be charged against the Republicans.
Who said they were?
Like I said in #113: He graduated magna cum laud from Harvard near the top of his class. He had the most prestigious job at Harvard as the Harvard Law review editor. He could have had any job on Wall Street, but instead, chose community activism. He taught Constitutional Law for a couple of years at the University of Illinois. Wrote two best selling books. Was elected to the Senate in a landslide.
All of these achievements and yet, he got to where he is because he is black? This is called “institutional racism”. If a white guy had these same achievements, no one would question his qualifications.
Imagine Bush had these qualifications. Would we be in the mess we are now? Who knows? But to have a “smart” leader surely doesn’t hurt. I prefer a smart leader than a dumb one.
Anlir, I’m still watching for answers to 120.
RDean, #117,
I forget, what state is Bush from? Did Powell and Bush always come down on the same side of issues? (In other words, do you think there might possibly be reasons other than “racism” that Texas wasn’t crazy about Powell? Why must race always be the first assumption when a black person is involved?!)
Never mind. Facts never get in your way when leaping to assumptions will do. Carry on.
#120: has willingly sat under a hate-mongering, anti-American racist.
Why would you say such an ugly thing? What hate-mongering, anti-American racist things has he said?
Perhaps you might want to check out his church?
http://www.tucc.org/
As I said in #142: I’m still trying to figure out what his “racist” rhetoric is. What he’s talked about is his personal experiences over the course of his life. Is that racist? Just the “Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment” is so horrific, that would certainly scar someone for life. Could you imagine if black doctors let syphilis run wild over generations in white people while they had the cure to stop it, but didn’t. Because they wanted to “see” what would happen? Would you ever trust those black people, ever? And then a black person calls you racist for not trusting black people? It’s insane.
How do Christians have the nerve to call blacks racist after something such as the “Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment”. You know that went on for generations and only ended in 1972? Bringing blacks here in chains is bad enough, but that was over a hundred years ago. Tuskegee is much more recent. What a stain on America. What an embarrasment.
Rdean - 142
You write:…..
“Imagine Bush had these qualifications. Would we be in the mess we are now? Who knows? But to have a “smart” leader surely doesn’t hurt. I prefer a smart leader than a dumb one.
Awards from University do not make one an exceptional leader. However, some still believe that if you graduate top in your class with all the honors a University can bestow on its graduates, it means they should be top in their chosen field…..nothing could be further from the truth.
Many people are more than capable of getting high grades and succeeding in their studies at University, BUT IT IS PUTTING the education which they have received into action, as the real test.
Many are able to memorize with precision everything they learn from a text book, and their professor, they are able to take tests and receive top grades……….. however, putting this knowledge to the test, in the REAL WORLD as a creative effort is another thing altogether. The real test of an educated individual is how they are able to apply what they have learned within their profession or society at large into practice.
Bush is much smarter and wiser than most average people are able to comprehend. This man has been able to withstand many storms, which he never thought he would encounter. His ability to take this country after 9-11 making this a safe place to live has not been lost on many an American citizen. President Bush didn’t graduate first in his class, but he had practical knowledge, and logic which is lost on many a so called intellectual.
Ability and logic are very different from graduating first in ones class. I would rather have logical skills, and the ability to use them, then all the ‘graduating first in your class’ awards any University could offer me.
#144: Did Powell and Bush always come down on the same side of issues?
Bush is from the east. His Texas accent is fake. Sometimes when he gets upset, he sounds like Teddy Kennedy.
Powell quit the Bush administration over differences.
Check out the following story:
Bush administration fears Powell will emerge as anti-war critic
Nick Juliano
Of all the former Bush administration officials whose advice was ignored — to disastrous effect — in the run-up to the Iraq war, Colin Powell has remained the most stoic and unwilling to criticize what others have called a lack of planning and overall mismanagement that led America to its current predicament.
A column published Thursday suggests that all could change at a most inopportune time for the administration, as it prepares to release its second surge-related progress report next month.
“Powell is the White House’s ticking-time-bomb scenario,” Sidney Blumenthal writes in Salon. “He was Petraeus before Petraeus, the good soldier before the good soldier, window-dressing before window-dressing. The White House aides’ fear of Powell reflects their guilt, if not their stricken consciences, over his disposal. Powell was used, ruined and tossed overboard. His warnings were ignored, his loyalty was abused, and when he no longer served Bush’s purposes he was unceremoniously discarded.”
Blumenthal notes Feb. 5, 2003, the date of Powell’s infamous United Nations presentation, “will live in mendacity, for every statement he made was later revealed to be false.”
A recently released documentary, “No End in Sight,” featured devastating interviews with three of Powell’s former aides and associates who were involved with Iraq’s reconstruction. RAW STORY previously published an exclusive excerpt of the film.
Blumenthal predicts the criticisms from Powell’s former inner circle — chief of staff, Col. Lawrence Wilkerson; his former deputy, Richard Armitage; and former U.S. ambassador Barbara Bodine — could foreshadow the former Secretary of State’s personal criticisms of the war.
“Armitage’s debut in particular has the White House fuming and fretting that it somehow signals Powell’s emergence as a full-throated critic in the middle of the September P.R. offensive,” Blumenthal writes.
Sources close to National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley tell Blumenthal he “has voiced anger and concern about whether Powell will step forward and what he might say, and other presidential aides are wondering how to cope with that nightmarish possibility.”
In a June appearance on Meet the Press, Powell was critical of the troop surge, Blumenthal notes, but otherwise he has strayed from criticizing the decisions he witnessed in the run-up to war.
“Powell’s absence cedes the political terrain to those who ousted him from office,” Blumenthal writes. “Notwithstanding his tarnished reputation, he has a final chance to regain his dignity and at least some of his previous standing by stepping forward at the crucial hour.”
#146: Many are able to memorize with precision everything they learn from a text book, and their professor, they are able to take tests and receive top grades
Sorry Victoria, but once again you make me laugh, totally without meaning to, I’m sure.
Because you memorize Bible quotes doesn’t make you smart. I know you quote a lot, but you can actually train a parrot to quote Bible passages. Now you might suddenly feel a little insulted, but look at it this way, you just suggested that every person with an advanced degree may have only had a “good memory” and may not be particularly bright.
Without doing the research, I suspect, the best doctors “earned” the best grades. The best lawyers “earned” the best grades. Certainly, I would feel better knowing my doctor graduated with honors and not just barely graduated.
When you get to masters or a doctorate, memorizing “stuff” isn’t education. Perhaps you might want to do research and find out what advanced education really means? It’s just a suggestion.
If I hadn’t received the GI bill, I might only have a high school diploma. There is a world of difference between high school and college. I am very thankful that I was able to serve my country and my education was a reward and a bonus.
#146: I would rather have logical skills, and the ability to use them,
And then you go on to say, “Bush is much smarter and wiser than most average people are able to comprehend.”
The majority of Americans find him a disappointment. Many find him a disaster. Just two days ago, he had veterans reeling when he said Afghanistan was “romantic” and “exciting”.
Inept and incompetent are words usually associated with Bush.
#144: do you think there might possibly be reasons other than “racism” that Texas wasn’t crazy about Powell?
I’m sorry, I got side tracked. Powell was talking about the need for more schools not more prisons because of the number of young black men in prison. The Texas delegation bowed their heads. Many turned their backs. They gave the impression they would rather see black men in prison than in school. I know their actions. Their reasons are only a guess. Powell was the only speaker they protested. Odd.
Rdean
THIS IS WHAT I POSTED in post 146….
“Many people are more than capable of getting high grades and succeeding in their studies at University, BUT IT IS PUTTING the education which they have received into action, as the real test.
YOU WRITE post 148:…..
“Because you memorize Bible quotes doesn’t make you smart. I know you quote a lot, but you can actually train a parrot to quote Bible passages. Now you might suddenly feel a little insulted, but look at it this way, you just suggested that every person with an advanced degree may have only had a “good memory” and may not be particularly bright.”
Poor Rdean. I was talking about University, and you can’t comprehend the difference between logic and top awards, and the ability to use logic. Then switch to “bright” which was NEVER mentioned in my post it’s your immature way of dealing with a discussion, twisting a quote, such as you did, where “BRIGHT” was never mentioned.
You do get things confused which is one reason you get off track on a regular basis.
I’m still wondering what is ‘anti american, hate mongering and racist’ about these comments?
It seems like folks like Victoria are of the ’sit down and shut up, don’t rock the boat’ school of dealing with other races and cultures.
I think that this paraphrase accurately represents that mode of thinkingWe know what is good for the blacks.
I just read up a little on the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment that Rdean’s been harping on and yeah, that was pretty sick. But I think it proves that liberals are wrong about two things. That government can be trusted with our health care and that scientists can be trusted to do the right thing. So it has convinced me that I am right not to vote for anyone who wants socialized medicine and thinks scientist and doctors can be trusted to make the decisions on things like embryonic stem cell research, cloning and abortion.
Rdean - @142 You used Ferraro as an example of the “inherent racism of the Republican Party” slander.
Poor Victoria, perhaps you might want to reread your post in #146. Here, let me quote you: Many are able to memorize with precision everything they learn from a text book, and their professor, they are able to take tests and receive top grades
They are able to take tests and receive top grades presumably through “memorization”? Otherwise, why mention it?
And then I said:
you just “suggested” that every person with an advanced degree may have only had a “good memory” and may not be particularly bright.”
And then you said:
difference between logic and top awards, and the ability to use logic. Then switch to “bright” which was NEVER mentioned in my post
Definition of “Bright”:
intelligent: showing an ability to think, learn, or respond quickly
She was brighter than other children her age.
likely to be successful: likely to be successful
predicted a bright future for the company
somebody without supernatural beliefs: a person, e.g. an atheist, who has a naturalist, as opposed to a supernaturalist, view of the world, and who therefore considers himself or herself to be more rational than religious believers
intensely colored: intense in color, or decorated with intense colors
bright blue
So Victoria, are you suggesting that you don’t need to be “bright” to use “logic”? Your thinking seems twisted. To me, it’s those that actually use logic that are bright.
The other thing you said I found quite humorous and I quote: I was talking about University, and you can’t comprehend the difference between logic and top awards
What is a University “top award” and how is it achieved? Can you achieve an advanced degree through “memorization”? What is an advanced degree?
Some people are certainly bright, like children’s scissors, cute, colorful, and not too sharp.
#153: Rdean - @142 You used Ferraro as an example of the “inherent racism of the Republican Party” slander.
You are right. I do seem to give that impression. It should have been separated by another paragraph. However, when I say, “The problem is they can’t see it. They don’t believe it exists.” Referring to the Republicans, it absolutely is true, but it is ALSO true for many white Americans, period.
Ferraro is a white liberal who ran for office as a candidate for Vice President. She flatly has stated the ONLY reason she was a candidate is because she is a woman. She says Obama got where he is because he’s black. He graduated magna cum laud from Harvard near the top of his class. He had the most prestigious job at Harvard as the Harvard Law review editor. He could have had any job on Wall Street, but instead, chose community activism. He taught Constitutional Law for a couple of years at the University of Illinois. Wrote two best selling books. Was elected to the Senate in a landslide.
All of these achievements and yet, he got to where he is because he is black? This is called “institutional racism”. If a white guy had these same achievements, no one would question his qualifications. He would be considered an American success story.
Many Republicans today are very suspicious of higher education. Look at Victoria from #146, and I quote: Many are able to memorize with precision everything they learn from a text book, and their professor, they are able to take tests and receive top grades….
Our country depends on those with “higher education” for its safety. Recently, the US shot down an orbiting satellite hundreds of miles above the earth to prevent it from crashing. The other reason it was shot down was as demonstration of American scientific technology to our enemies. Believe me, they watched the entire thing with interest. Did scientists that created these rockets receive their higher degree trough memorization? Of course not. I get tired of those that down education when it is so vital to the well being of our country.
Lately, the Republicans have hit a many home runs. They place mysticism ahead of science. They ridicule the well educated as not having common sense. They smear, they twist and they are so greedy and defend that need for greed.
kbells what other sweeping generalizations can you glean from this experience? c’mon, I’m sure you’ve got more.
USA! USA! USA!
Re Vicotria and #134
I, like others , am still wondering why the outcry over these quotes;
“The government lied about Pearl Harbor. They knew the Japanese were going to attack. Government’s lied.”
Well known mainstream historians have speculated on this idea for years. In fact, isolationist were the first to come up with this idea since FDR turned his attention to Europe not Asia. Pearl Harbour was seen as a means to enter the war and help the UK.
“We’ve got a paranoid group of patriots in power that now, in the interest of homeland stupidity – I mean homeland security …”
Given how this colossal Orwellian bureaucratic nightmare of a department has performed, paranoid and stupid are apt descriptors.
“The government lied about the Tuskegee experiment. They purposely infected African-American men with syphilis …” True
“Fighting for peace is like raping for virginity.”
A little metaphorical excess not normally found in church but pretty close to the truth.
“… what’s going on in white America, U.S. of KKKA …” more metaphorical excess, but historically based
“Black men turning on black men – that is fighting the wrong enemy. You both are the primary targets in an oppressive society that sees both of you as a dangerous threat.”
Given the rate of black on black violence, Wright is addressing a serious problem and asking them to focus on the real problem — an oppressive society — typical liberation theology, in Latin America they preached class unity and Wright preaches racial unity to combat black on black violence.
“We cannot see how what we are doing is the same thing al-Qaida is doing under a different color flag … And guess what else. If they don’t find them some weapons of mass destruction, they going to do just like the LAPD and plant them some weapons of mass destruction.”
Maher and others have said similar things about US foreign policy; as in “we’re the real cowards bombing from thousands of feet away.” Wright views Ameican foreign policy as a policy of terror. If you consider carpet bombing, mine laying, cruise missile attacks, napalm, Agent Orange etc an act of terror then Wright has a point.
As for planted evideince, he was wrong but international oversight may have prevent this from occuring in Iraq. Although prior to the invasion, the Plame affair, the Downing Street memo and Powell’s UN presenation indicate a willingness to suppress, distort and stretch the evidence.
I think we all know the LAPD is not the company of saints.
“God damn America – that’s in the Bible – for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating us citizens as less than human. God damn America …”
Thanks for providing the context. He’s not daming America or its people rather American foreign policy which should be damned, disposed and replaced which is exactly what Obama proposes.
Many are able to memorize with precision everything they learn from a text book, and their professor, they are able to take tests and receive top grades……….. however, putting this knowledge to the test, in the REAL WORLD. ..The real test of an educated individual is how they apply what they have learned within their profession or society at large into practice.
In my last year of undergrad and my two years of grad school, I took zero exams none nada. I needed to memorize nothing nada not a thing. All I had to do was use the information and knowledge available through original sources and the logic encased within my gray matter to develop a reasonable argument concerning historical and philosophical academic disagreements. Even in my third year (junior) most exams were open book and questions given prior to the exam. My profs were only interested in my logic not my memory.
As Rdean points out, without the development and use of logic, scientific achievement would end where the textbook ends.
#152
kbellis — I too would not entrust the Dept. of Defense with my health care. Tuskegee and Walter Reed are pretty damning evidence in that regard. However I would and do entrust my health to the Ministry of Health and Long Term Care in Ontario.
Both kbellis and Vidtoria have aptly demonstrated the anti-intellectual current running through conservative America today.
I’m still wondering, too, how Ferraro’s statement can be construed as evidence of “racicm inherent in the Republican party.” (#116) I would think that if someone’s going to posit that something “absolutely is true,” some sort of evidince would be provided to substantiate such a firm belief. Insinuation doesn’t count as proof.
Rdean - Obama is an impressive person. But a white man with his resume (and without some other unusual factor like being a Kennedy) would still be 10 years away from the nomination.
So what Ferraro said had some merit (as non-PC as it was). He would not be a contender right now this year if he were not (marketed as) black (even though he is half white too and raised by whites).
156. How about the entire country should be damned and all white people are racist.
Now that would be an overkill.
if you have an idea yourself of what someone else means when they say “big fat white man” or “little old black lady”, then you are racist. Alternatively stated, if you even notice that someone is white black chinese from kentucky malaysia spruce pine mountain sodom or big cove, in other words you know you aint related to them by a long ways then you sir and madam are racists.
I honestly believe this to be true. I also understand that this means it is not worth considering anymore. divide and conquer is a rather pathetic heuristic for communicating with the exploiting crowd, but it is a powerful call to those looking for identity movements etc.
Ultimately such discussion regresses to the courtier’s reply. the notion of rich white executives ruling over a brown world of laborers etc is a metaphor drawn from objective experience for much of recorded human history. There’s more than a little blame the victim game privileged white guilt praise the lord none can know his ways schadenfreude plastered over a scrambling internal debate for a new rhetoric of denial that can still be translated as love mercy and selflessness on sunday morning.
It’s true. Blacks orta be pissed off. So should a lot of people.
It’s true. That doesn’t mean you have to recognize that as valid. It’s not your fault either.
It’s true. You should be pissed off too. Who are you really defending?
KBELLS: 129 & 131. How often does it happen?
Don’t worry, probably not often enough to affect your circle of experience.
If you’re a cop, though, one of your biggest worries is an encounter with a black man who is willing to go down killing you.
Four policemen were killed in my city a few years ago by a parolee who didn’t want to go back to court. Police shot the shooter and now don’t have anyone to execute, or anyone to punish as an accomplice. The negro was solo. But the cops are a bit mad, to say the least.
It sounds like you are smart enough to realize that “police brutality” is just a diversion that liberals take as an excuse for letting criminals go! The only time police do anything wrong are the times they get caught on video, and that never proves anything, anyway.
For an amusing take on Obama’s minister see the Red State Update. Warning: language may offend some, but still one of the best routine’s the two have done in a long time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvrIKrK1Xso
#161: Obama is an impressive person. But a white man with his resume (and without some other unusual factor like being a Kennedy) would still be 10 years away from the nomination.
Why. Obama is at least as old as JFK when he ran and certainly has more experience than Lincoln. If he has the talent, the knowledge and the skill, why should he be ten years older? If he can put together a winning campaign, then why shouldn’t he win? What are we waiting for?
#165: Four policemen were killed in my city a few years ago by a parolee who didn’t want to go back to court.
When a white parolee kills a policeman, it’s not likely to go past the local papers. It’s like when a man molests a little boy. It’s huge news because it’s so rare. Statistics show that little girls are 7 to 10 times more likely to be molested yet how often do you read about little girls being molested? Unless it’s a political figure or someone famous, you never hear about it.
Papers are always looking for news. If they can’t find it, they seem to manufacture it. Don’t worry, they will get around to McCains “spiritual advisor”, who just happens to live in a city with 150,000 Muslims who have no idea he wants them destroyed. They will figure it out. Then you will see some news.
HRW - 158
You are speaking for yourself, and that’s only right, regarding your exams and when they were administered. However that does not apply to all Universities, or ones chosen field.
Rdean - Kennedy. Kennedy. A high profile political family. Like Taft in Ohio or Daley in Chicago. The name was a boost that overcomes a lot of other things.
If he can do it, why not try? I agree that he has every right to try. But a white guy without an unusual circumstance (like a Kennedy name) would not be in the position Obama is in now.
165. “Don’t worry, probably not often enough to affect your circle of experience.”
Why do you say that?
165. My son is part black and looks black to some people. He will be driving in about 11 years. This is something I really want to know.
This is in regards to PLANNED PARENTHOOD- Be prepared it is very serious, and heartbreaking!
Below are the headlines on DRUDGE for these stories.
PAPER: PLANNED PARENTHOOD caller encouraged aborting black babies…
The story that started it all…
Autumn’s Response: PP Racism Extended Version
#170: A high profile political family.
Until JFK ran for president, his family wan’t that high profile. If it weren’t for TV, he wouldn’t even had been president.
victoria are you really a sockpuppet on here promoting snopes.com?
Scroop Moth unbelievably said “If you’re a cop, though, one of your biggest worries is an encounter with a black man who is willing to go down killing you.”
Really? your biggest worry is getting killed on the job, it is getting killed by a black man? hey man don’t worry about the crazy crackahs its the brothas you gotta watch out for. Are you for real? Please do tell. That’s a trip.
REGARDING post 173:
PAPER: PLANNED PARENTHOOD caller encouraged aborting black babies… ^
From the March 16, 2008 12:57:34 GMT edition of the Drudge Report.
Erasmus
Snopes?
do you read the news, or do you ever go to the front page of Drudge?
Rdean - 174
YOU WRITE: ……
“Until JFK ran for president, his family wan’t that high profile. If it weren’t for TV, he wouldn’t even had been president.”
REALLY?
Joseph P. Kennedy, 1888-1969
Father of President Kennedy, banker, financier, diplomat. Chairman, Securities and Exchange Commission (1934-1937); Chairman, Maritime Commission (1937); Ambassador to Great Britain (1938-1940).
Personal papers (1888-1974) document his life as banker, financier, movie producer, diplomat and father to nine children. Papers record the positions Kennedy held, including his business ventures in banking, real estate and finance, movie producer, chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, chairman of the U.S. Maritime Commission, and ambassador to Great Britain. Other papers document Kennedy family life, including Kennedy’s time after his ambassadorship and the political campaigns of his two sons, John F. Kennedy and Robert F. Kennedy.
KBells — I don’t have a way of measuring the frequency of police misconduct. In the South, black men are often apprehensive about it.
If you want to know how prevalent abuse is in your community, I suggest interviewing a criminal lawyer who has prior experience as a DA or even a police officer. Cops aren’t uniform. Many of them are virtually renegade, and the code of silence is strong. A lot is affected by how big an anti-drug operation your police department has. The jump-out boys have reputations to maintain, and they’ll do things like throw kids on the ground, take their money, and tow their cars. Even if all the charges are dropped, a little incident like that (littering, loud music, an open container) could cost you $1,000. A lot of crimes require no more evidence than a policeman’s statement, “I saw subject No. 1 then proceed to etc. etc.” A big part of police work is gathering and reporting information, but unfortunately that’s beyond the pay grades of a lot of them. When you request a copy of your son’s police incident report ($30) you will be shocked to see how incoherent it is. The sloppiness may even be some sort of defense against the fraudulence.
The main thing to remember, KBells, is that if something bad happens to him, you won’t be prepared to fully understand your son’s feelings. Part of you will want to cross-examine the boy, just because common sense tells you he must have done something wrong, or been in the wrong place, or been foolish, or whatever. In order to know what police will do, they almost have to do it to you. This will be very hard on both of you.
The other thing to remember is that most of us don’t really care about the details of the trouble someone else gets into with the police. A boy who is the victim of misconduct has nobody to turn to, except a lawyer, if one will listen. Everyone else, even family, will find the details too murky and subject to interpretation. Justice is rough, and the outcome isn’t going to sit well with him if he’s the brooding type. Blacks often handle these situations by ritualizing them as rites of passage. In jail house parking lots all across the South, you’ll see carloads of people at midnight waiting for youths to walk out the gate so that they can congratulate them for becoming men.
I have a caring and conscientious nephew who is a state trooper (up North) and am sure that many officers are like him. But for at least 30 years, the public has not been inclined to ask the kind of question you just did, and the police act like it.
Rdean - The prior Kennedy clan were very well wired into Democratic politics (as noted above). One doesn’t have to be an elected officeholder to be prominent (look at Obama’s buddy Rezko in Illinois).
You didn’t mention that the Kennedy clan made the bulk of their money running illegal liquor during prohibition.
I hardly see how being chairman of the U.S. Maritime Commission is as high profile as being president. Quick, name two ambassadors currently serving. See?
If it weren’t for TV, Kennedy never would have been president. I know. I was there.
Rdean,
Please continue to argue that Kennedys and Fitzgeralds prior to JFK weren’t politically well-connected and well-recognized. The contortions are cute. Do they hurt?
Entertained,
SG
178. Scoop Moth. Thank you.
This is what I said:
Until JFK ran for president, his family wan’t that high profile. If it weren’t for TV, he wouldn’t even had been president.
This is what you said:
Please continue to argue that Kennedys and Fitzgeralds prior to JFK weren’t politically well-connected and well-recognized. The contortions are cute. Do they hurt?
You tell me.
Redean - 180
Joseph Kennedy - Chairman, Securities and Exchange Commission (1934-1937)
How important do you belive the “Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commmission” is?
Do you think its a small thing to be an Ambassador to Great Britain as Joseph Kennedy was?
Obama’s preacher sanitizes website
Removes radical ‘Black Value System’ from church ‘About Us’ page
March 16, 2008
10:56 pm Eastern
© 2008 WorldNetDaily
“Here is the entire text of the section before it was redacted:”
“Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the Black Value System, written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee chaired by the late Vallmer Jordan in 1981. We believe in the following 12 precepts and covenantal statements. These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They must reflect on the following concepts:”
1. Commitment to God
2. Commitment to the Black Community
3. Commitment to the Black Family
4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness”
9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community
10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions
11. Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System
12. Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.”
Critics argue Wright has used his tax-exempt church to exercise a radical political agenda.
“A longtime friend of Nation of Islam founder Louis Farrakhan, Wright has called for divestment from Israel and refers to Israel, as well as America, as a “racist” state.”
Why were the 12 precepts and covenantal statements removed?
Who is ALL Black leadership?
KBells,
My GUESS is that the infamous DWB is mostly kids being in the wrong part of town at night. Why do I guess that? Because I have two white male relatives who routinely drove in those parts of town (one for work, one because he lived there), and they told those stories of cops who’d pull them over on a small excuse. It happened frequently to both. (”Your tailliight cover is chipped.” Really stupid stuff. They wouldn’t get a ticket or any official warning; they’d just be pulled over, present no threat of any kind, and be sent on their way. And yes, a police officer should have been able to tell they weren’t black; they just were in an iffy part of town at night.) And I haven’t heard those stories from middle-class black men. Again, this is just a theory, nothing more.
Also, for years I heard black parents say things like, “We have to actually teach our sons what to do if a cop pulls him over. Move slowly, speak quietly, say ‘yes sir,’” and on and on. For years I took that at face value, that black men had to be extra careful with police. But then I mentioned the list to a white man, who laughed. “Yes, those are the things all of us do when the police pull us over!” Point very well taken. Black youth often tend to want to argue with police and assume the police are their enemies (they’ve all heard the stories), but in fact it’s wiser to respond with respect and calmness–as white people usually do automatically.
And indeed a police officer is taking his life into his hands in a “bad neighborhood,” and he’s much, much more likely to find an armed-and-dangerous driver if the driver is a young black male. So it makes sense for a young black man to be extra careful in letting a policeman see he isn’t a thug.
Do police ever set people up? Yes, I believe they do. But my guess is that the average good citizen, white or black, isn’t likely to encounter such treatment.
Thanks, HRW, that was pretty good!
RDean writes: “Bush is from the east. His Texas accent is fake. Sometimes when he gets upset, he sounds like Teddy Kennedy.”
Bush was raised in Texas.
SteveG: if this Rod Parsley, who is unknown to me, is McCain’s pastor and you have the videotape, play it. I have no objection to that. But saying that Rod Parsley said this or that doesn’t make what Wright says okay. It’s not a wash. It’s not to be ignored.
Scroopy wrote: “Black people can be prejudiced but they can hardly be racists, because they don’t have the power to control whites.
White people may not be prejudiced but they use cultural tools that control blacks, so they can practice racism.”
This is liberal doublespeak. This is horsepucky. If I could use a stronger word here, I would.
I’ve read some of “Dreams of My Father” written by Obama. Can any of the liberals here provide a quote from Obama that specifically repudiates what he said in that book about white people? Show me when and where he had his “epiphany,” because, quite frankly, in my opinion, if he had such an epiphany, he wouldn’t have used Wright’s phrase “the audacity of hope” for his later book.
All I can conclude from this thread is that as a white person, in order to prove I am not a racist, I must vote for a black person who is a racist.
That’s more horsepucky.
Victoria blames the victem for being victemized. That’s the way her logic works.
President is certainly more high profile than ambassador. I know how the president is, I don’t know who the Ambassador to Great Britian is. I’m guessing you do. Or not.
Cheryl, #187. I think you may be right. Anyway, about all I can do at the moment is teach my son good sense, respect for the law and authority and to stay out of bad neighborhoods and keep the number of a good lawyer around.
#189: Bush was raised in Texas.
Bush was born in Connecticut and his family moved to Texas when he was two. Around the eight or ninth grade, he was sent to Andover where he spent all of his high school years attending a prep school in Massachusetts. Then he went to Yale and then to Harvard where he excelled as a “cheerleader” with average to below average grades.
When he gets excited or upset, his “Texas” accent slips and his eastern accent shines through.
#189: if this Rod Parsley, who is unknown to me, is McCain’s pastor
McCain has referred to Rod many times as his (McCain’s) spiritual advisor. This is well known, it is not new. Rod Parsley is very famous. 2 minutes with any search engine could verify this. Also, check out Rod Parsley and “destroy” Muslims, including those in the US and those on active duty in the US armed forces.
RDean, you’re always telling us how stupid GWB is. You are trying now to convince me that he concentrates on a “false” Texas accent. Honestly, I speak one way usually, but every once in awhile, the Jersey accent comes out, too. And if I go to New England and stay long enough, I pick up that sound, too. So what? You have a real problem with your hatred of George Bush. It makes no sense.
If Rod Parsley were as well-known as you say, I’d have heard about him from the usual tv and magazines sources. I’ve only heard of him on this blog. Again, let the media play whatever they want to play. But take care, if you play his anti-Muslim tape, you may have to answer for Obama’s statement in his book that if push comes to shove, he’ll support the Muslims. Be careful what you pray for, RDean.
I am now listening to Rev. Wright’s version of the “America the Beautiful.” Apparently, he’s anti-Israel, too. You have a long way to go to pull your candidate out of this, if you can at all.
he’s anti-Israel, too
What exactly is “anti-Israel”? And why do we give them so much money? The US should be dealing with other countries around the world in an honest manner and in a manner that puts the best interest of the US first.
American Christians have gone so overboard with “hate Muslims” they can’t see that not all Muslims are bad.
I don’t even believe that all Christians are bad. But there are plenty that are bad.
#193: RDean, you’re always telling us how stupid GWB is.
Stupid enough to record this song. Listen and weep. The comments below the song are especially touching.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbCkC4OyTV4&feature=related
NJLawyer at #189: SteveG: if this Rod Parsley, who is unknown to me, is McCain’s pastor and you have the videotape, play it. I have no objection to that. But saying that Rod Parsley said this or that doesn’t make what Wright says okay. It’s not a wash. It’s not to be ignored.
I’m not going to talk to you about Obama or Wright until you retract your slanderous allegation that I “support” Osama bin Laden.
We may interact on other topics, but not this one, pending that.
SteveG, I went through this thread two times and looked over my posts, and I don’t know what you are referring to. Please advise where I have slandered you.
Tell me that Rod Parsley, the “spiritual advisor” to Sen. McCain isn’t tearing up a Bible, chapter by chapter, in front of his congregation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQO4wmmSrFg&feature=related
I think RDean is Jeremiah Wright incognito, or maybe Barack Hussein Obama. Take your pick.
Michael he can’t help himself
Rdean,
Please explain to everyone why Parsley is McCain’s spiritual advisor, and what exactly that means. Longtime friend? Personal counselor? Maybe the pastor in a church McCain frequented. Or are you maybe referring to the one single time McCain referred to Parsley as “one of the truly great leaders in America, a moral compass, a spiritual guide” as part of his introduction at a rally. Is that the tight link that makes Parsley his “spiritual” adviser? Pathetic drivel.
—————
Michael Martin,
Um, no. I can’t speak for Wright, but Obama appears to have some self-respect.
#199: Barack Hussein Obama
Wow, so formal. Spelling out his entire name. Does that have some special secret meaning?
#201: Please explain to everyone why Parsley is McCain’s spiritual advisor,
Ask McCain. He’s the one who publicly refers to Rod Parsley as his “spiritual advisor”.
So can someone tell me what Rod Parsley is tearing up in front of his congregation?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQO4wmmSrFg&feature=related
McCain never referred to Parsley as his personal spiritual advisor in any sense like how you mean it, and I suspect you actually know that. Stop it with the dissembling little donato droppings, Rdean.
In other, shorter words. You’re telling lies.
NJLAWYER:
I forgive you for calling me horsepucky, so long as it wins you esteem, but you know darling it’s not going to persuade me.
People like Cheryl D want to believe that the problem of racism doesn’t amount to much more than the personal errors of some people, white and black, who view other people according to inappropriate stereotypes.
There are people in my town who once had to walk in the unpaved streets because they weren’t allowed on the sidewalks on account of their skin pigment. There are others who walked those sidewalks without a trace of personal animus against black people, and possibly even without prejudice. However, each step they took was a step on the smooth way to hell, because they were using a system that gave them advantages at the expense of others under its control.
Conservative Christians believe in depravity, which means that they should consider the possibility that people who have power will abuse it to benefit themselves. Did you ever see the John Travolta movie, White Man’s Burden? It’s a preposterous story in which Blacks are the elite and Whites are the underclass.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200803140013?f=h_top
http://mediamatters.org/items/200803140013?f=h_top
Yea, read it and weep.
Scroop Moth,
I’ve seen actual racism (white on black and black on white). I don’t think that American society is actively racist anymore, and I DO think that black society is more racist than white society is today. (Black “rage” is justified today, sometimes up to and including murder.) In other words, we shouldn’t pretend that racism is still a huge problem; it is not. Nor should we pretend that we can someday be rid of all racism; we always have to contend with the human heart. So speak out against racism and move on, rather than continuing to act as though saying lots and lots about how bad it is will convince racists to change.
Oh please, walking on a sidewalk or not doing so is hardly a worst-case scenario issue. And it’s long ago, right? How does that prove that racism is still prevalent today?
The bitterness which black’s hold against the white race isn’t going to bring any peace in their lives. It’s being handed down from their parents and grandparents.
The racism which I see today is against we who are white. Sometimes it’s almost a ‘dare’ to see how we will react to comments made in public.
If peace is what the black’s want, (I have to believe MOST want peace) then it would be wise to stop the constant verbal attacks both in print, and public.
All the arguments all the name calling, won’t solve any of the problems.
NJLawyer at #197: SteveG, I went through this thread two times and looked over my posts, and I don’t know what you are referring to. Please advise where I have slandered you.
It’s in the “Obama addresses pastor controversy” thread. Your post #27, and my response is in #28.
Spiritual guide to whom, Rdean?
In what sense? Please document the connection and activity that substantiates Parsley’s role as McCain’s spiritual advisor. Calling him, in the course of a public introduction, “a moral compass, a spiritual guide” implies no such thing and you know it. Now stop telling lies.
CHERYL D.: I’ve seen actual racism
In your own words, Miss Cheryl, tell the court what you saw.
POLITICO
Ben Smith
March 17, 2008
Obama plans major race speech tomorrow
Barack Obama will give a major speech on “the larger issue of race in this campaign,” he told reporters in Monaca, PA just now.
He was pressed there, as he has been at recent appearances, on statements by his former pastor, Jeremiah Wright.
“I am going to be talking about not just Reverend Wright, but the larger issue of race in this campaign,” he said.
He added that he would <b.”talk about how some of these issues are perceived from within the black church issue for example,” he said.
He also briefly defended Wright from the image that has come through in a handful of repeatedly televised clips from recent Wright sermons.
“The caricature that’s being painted of him is not accurate,” he said.
(Yes I’m sure those clips are just a “caricature” - 17 tapes and they are all CARICATURE’S? That should put some credibility back in the mix -
Victoria,
Tell us how Wright has affected Obama’s politics - his views, ideology and policies? How about his voting record?
It works this way: If Wright’s ideas and words are going to be any taint on Obama, they have to be shown to have influenced Obama somehow in some demonstrable way. There should be clear traces of this influence evident in the record of what Obama has said and done. Where are those traces, exactly?
Take care,
SG
Redean where in post 27 on the “Obama addresses pastor controversy” thread did NJL slander you? Copy paste the EXACT quote you are referring to on that thread so we can ALL read what you are complaining about.
I have read post 27 which NJL wrote, over several times, and I see nothing wrong with it. I do SEE that you need to read her post over, and then compare it to yours. Give it a try!
Good grief. I’ll be happy when supporters on both sides drop the guilt by insinuation and association bit and get back to talking about what their preferred candidate is going or not going to do for our country.
Same goes for the World Mag Bloggers.
Please. Enough of the breathless horserace commentary.
#211: Now stop telling lies.
I put a link there. The following is right out of the article:
Parsley called McCain a “strong, true, consistent conservative,” and McCain referred to Parsley as a “spiritual guide.” Also, you can go to Youtube and watch a dozen videos.
#215: Redean where in post 27 on the “Obama addresses pastor controversy” thread did NJL slander you?
Vicky, vicky, vicky. It’s not me. You’ve got things mixed up once again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjX7BAPdQ00&feature=related
You are right Rdean it is Steveg. Sorry for the mix-up Deanie, Deanie, Deanie!
Rdean,
Did you see the context of the phrase? You still haven’t answered questions about what the term might mean, nor have you established any credible notion of a real or active spiritual advisorship for Parsley. Just repetition of the same discredited droppings.
You know that I believe that spiritualism is a hoax on mankind, “spiritual” advisor is a term I would never use.
The term came from the from the Columbus Dispatch:
McCain campaigned yesterday in Cincinnati, where he appeared with the Rev. Rod Parsley of World Harvest Church of Columbus. McCain called Parsley a “spiritual guide,” while Parsley later labeled McCain a “strong, true, consistent conservative.”
I don’t know what else to say. What is it you are expecting?
Perhaps you could do a quick search using “john mccain rod parsley” and see what pops up.
“What is it you are expecting?”
Something beyond a single flowery designation in the context of a platform introduction is usually required to establish a meaningful relationship between a person and the person he calls “a spiritual guide”. At least among people interested in establishing a connection of any significance or credibility.
Cheryl #187
Black youth often tend to want to argue with police and assume the police are their enemies (they’ve all heard the stories), but in fact it’s wiser to respond with respect and calmness–as white people usually do automatically…. So it makes sense for a young black man to be extra careful in letting a policeman see he isn’t a thug.
Translation: Its the black man’s fault that he doesn’t respect the Man and hasn’t proven to the cop that he is innocent.
The bitterness which black’s hold against the white race isn’t going to bring any peace in their lives. … The racism which I see today is against we who are white. Sometimes it’s almost a ‘dare’ to see how we will react to comments made in public.If peace is what the black’s want, … then it would be wise to stop the constant verbal attacks both in print, and public.
Tranlation: If blacks want the white man’s respect then they need to be quiet, meek and humble. No talking out of turn.
HRW 223
REGARDING my post 209
You don’t need to translate anything HRW, just to suit your purpose. It’s become your modus operandi to scramble what someone says, its a very IMMATURE technique.
I said it, and I stand behind what I posted.
Scroop Moth,
You don’t believe there is racism today, that I have to give actual examples before you believe me? Hmm, let’s see, in the black-on-white example, when I was a kid I had a black crossing guard who would call white kids “whitey” under her breath, apparently thrilled with the power she had over children. In my all-black neighborhood in Chicago, my white roommate would come home from a walk shaken because black teens (two or three at a time) would close in on her muttering “white bitch.” It happened more than once. Either of these incidents should be “racist” even by the definition of racism requiring power.
White on black, I know an old man (didn’t know him well) who according to reliable witnesses casually referred to black people by the n-word, and couldn’t understand why it was considered a problem. (Not to their faces as far as I know, but I’m not sure.) I encountered, regularly, white fear of black people when I lived in a black neighborhood. One relative of a relative, not knowing where I lived, asked me if I had to go through any “colored” neighborhoods to get home.
These are all tame, I’ll admit it. I’ve never seen anyone lynched or even spat on. But they are all some level of racism.
Another example of racism, or race-pandering, or whatever you want: When Bush was running for president, I received a vile anti-Bush mailer (again, remember where I lived): on the front it showed a pickup with chains dragging from its bumper, and inside it made reference to the horrible recent lynching-by-dragging in Texas…and used it to scare black people from voting for Bush. I’m sorry, that is downright evil, and I’d have been sickened by it if the man who was killed had been my father.
No, HRW, I didn’t say at all what you’re interpreting me as saying. But I did say that all of us show respect to cops, or should (both because of their authority AND because it’s in our best interest to do so). And doesn’t it make sense to you that a man being pulled over might have to show more caution than a woman does (because his actions are more likely to be seen as aggressive, and he’s more likely to be carrying a gun than a woman is)…and that a black man might reasonably be even more careful, for the same reasons? No, I’m not “blaming” innocent black people or assuming all black men are hoodlums–I have known some black men whom I’d trust enough to have them interview a potential husband to see if he’d measure up. But it’s a foolish person who refuses, for instance, to let the police see his hands when ordered to do so. And sometimes nervous cops shoot people who seem to pose a threat–policemen are human beings, and in that situation they are very vulnerable human beings. A man who acts aggressively and refuses to show his hands, and is holding a cell phone or something that could be a gun, may not be “asking” to be shot, but he certainly is acting stupid.
But you are asking a black man to be more careful than a white man and in that way you are giving the black man responsibility for what is essentially society racism.
Victoria - I simplified what you said but when you claim peace will happen when verbal attacks cease you are asking for blacks to be quiet. Its the idea of being “uppity”.
HRW
You didn’t simplify anything HRW, what you did was RE-ARRANGE what I said to suit your purpose.
You can’t win this, you stuck your foot in it, and now you can’t help yourself.
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My original post 209
The bitterness which black’s hold against the white race isn’t going to bring any peace in their lives. It’s being handed down from their parents and grandparents.
The racism which I see today is against we who are white. Sometimes it’s almost a ‘dare’ to see how we will react to comments made in public.
If peace is what the black’s want, (I have to believe MOST want peace) then it would be wise to stop the constant verbal attacks both in print, and public.
All the arguments all the name calling, won’t solve any of the problems.
The racism which I see today is against we who are white.
HA HA HA HA HEE HEE HEE HA HA. GOOD ONE!!!! HA HA HA AH HA HA HA HO HO HEE HEE TEE TEE. I NEEDED THAT. THANKS!!!!
HRW, #226, only if I’m also giving the white man “responsibility for what is essentially society [sexism].” Sir, the REALITY (not just a stereotype) is that men commit far more murders than women do, and that young black men commit far more than their proportion of crime, including murder. Any honest black man will admit this himself. (Decent black men of my acquaintance sorrow over this reality, as well as over how it affects them.)
A man of character and integrity shouldn’t have to be extra careful because of others of his gender/race, but it isn’t the policeman’s fault that the policeman has to be extra careful! It’s reality. And it would be utterly foolish for the police officer to pretend that an old white woman is as much of a threat to his life as the 18-year-old black male with angry music played so loudly it shakes the windows on the whole street. It would be like airport security pretending that middle-Eastern men pose no more threat than other people groups do.
Charging “racism” isn’t true and doesn’t even come close to fixing the problem being addressed here–that young black males commit far more than their “share” of crime and thus even innocent parties in this people group are treated with a little more hesitation in situations where safety is an issue (a pedestrian in a dark alley, a police officer pulling over a car). Honestly now, if your doorbell rings at midnight and there’s a stranger on your doorstep, are you more likely to answer the door if that stranger is an 80-year-old white woman with a cane or an 18-year-old black man? (Note: If you answered that you’d be more likely to answer the door to the second person because a cane is a potential weapon, you flunk the quiz.)
SteveG, I have carefully looked for the other thread that you mentioned, but cannot find it. If you can reproduce the #27 and #28, I will answer you.
Vicotria — you’re right I don’t know why I bother to simplify it since its already obvious
f peace is what the black’s want, (I have to believe MOST want peace) then it would be wise to stop the constant verbal attacks both in print, and public.
Cheryl - I do believe policemen and border guards do public safety a disservice if they don’t treat certain groups more carefully than others. This is their job as an officer of public safety. However, anyone who qualifies as a member of a suspicious group should not have to overcompensate for their membership.
As for your delimna, in all honesty I would answer the door for both of them but be more cautious with the second. However, if it was an 80 year old black women or a 18 year old white boy, I still would be more cautious with the 18 year old boy. Its not the colour for me — its the age, gender and possibly greater strength which would worry me.