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The same week that the Virginia Senate voted to cut off funds to Planned Parenthood, pro-life students outed the organization for alleged racism.
Lila Rose, UCLA sophomore and founder of The Advocate, a pro-life student magazine, recruited an actor to make phone calls to Planned Parenthood clinics in seven states posing as a racist who wanted to make a donation earmarked for the abortion of black babies. Without objection or question, every representative the actor spoke to said they would accept such a donation.
Here is the dialogue between the actor and the representative at the
Actor: …I really faced trouble with affirmative action, and I don’t want my kids to be disadvantaged against black kids.
Planned Parenthood: Yes, absolutely.
Actor: And we don’t, you know, we just think the less black kids out there the better.
Planned Parenthood: (Laughs) Understandable, understandable… This is the first time I’ve had a donor call and make this kind of request, so I’m excited and want to make sure I don’t leave anything out.
This was not the first time Rose, who claims to be a Christian, used “behind the scenes” techniques with Planned Parenthood. In November 2006, Rose posed as a pregnant 15-year-old. She used an undercover camera to record a Planned Parenthood employee advising her to claim she was 16 so they wouldn’t have to report it as a case of statutory rape. When Planned Parenthood found out, they threatened to sue Rose.
Rose told WoW that she believes Christian journalists, like government agents, are justified in going undercover, and even lying, in order to fight against human rights abuses, such as slavery and abortion.
“You see Christians in history going undercover with this kind of infiltration to save a life, or find a truth…this is the kind of thing we can do bravely,” she said.
On Thursday, Planned Parenthood’s CEO Rebecca Poedy apologized for the actions of the representative at the
The charge of racism has legs, though, because Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger helped to fund her organization by suggesting — accurately — that it would cut down the number of African-American births. A much higher percentage of black babies than white babies are now killed before birth.
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Off-key
I have met people who justified their pro-abortion stance by saying it will get rid of more black people. They are usually Democrats.
What does it say about an organization when the founder had such a biggoted opinion? What does it say about an organization when much of it’s purpose is killing the unborn?
What a vile organization.
That’s eugenics for you. We recoil at what Hitler did, but he was “honest” about it. Isn’t it odd how the US rejected it in the 1930s but has embraced it abortion by abortion. If you don’t meet your victims, I guess it’s easier to justify destroying them.
Well, not to come to the defense of PPFA. But here goes. We know PPFA spokespeople have lied in testimony to the Congress.
Who’s to say that the employee talking with the decoy wasnt just going along to make sure the money was donated??
How would anyone be able to confirm the race of an unborn baby. A black teen could have had sex with a white boy (Might not bilateral aversion to miscegenation account for at least some of the abortions done on black females??)
Anyway, if you aborted the kids born to black women who were impregnated by white guys wouldnt you have wiped out Halle Berry, Barack Obama and lots of other prominent celebs? Alas, you would.
Of course, when Jehovah/Jesus told the Jews to go kill every man, woman and child of the “non-chosen” races, including the babies in the womb, that wasn’t racist, was it?
Correction:
Of course, when Jehovah/Jesus told the Jews to go kill every man, woman and child of some of the “non-chosen” races, including the babies in the womb, that wasn’t racist, was it?
And when Jehovah/Jesus ordered entire races/ethnic groups murdered, that wasn’t genocide, and it wasn’t eugenics, either, right?
Night Train - No, it wasn’t.
LMBO! When Hitler does it, or PP does it, it’s genocide. When God does it, it’s take your pick:
A) God emphasizing human freedom (Joel Mark)
B) God giving the loving gift of bloody murder to people and sparing them further pain and sadness (Michael Martin)
C) Jehovah/Jesus showing his love and compassion for a broken and hurting humanity (pretty much everyone else)
Oh now you had something interesting going until you dragged out that tired old Margaret Sanger crap. The donation takers on the other hand, that’s a little strange. It’s unlikely that Planned Parenthood has a special fund for aborting black babies, but it is a little shocking that the phone reps would act as if some fund existed. I wonder if she was promising a lot of money.
What’s old and tired about the “Margaret Sanger” stuff? Was she a racist eugenicist or not? I was a young, militant feminist in 1973, and I was shocked that I was expected to admire her and think killing babies was a good idea. (Yeah, later I did get kicked out of NOW.)
Maybe Jehovah/Jesus told her to, just like he did the Jews way back in the OT.
Night Train:
Why, I wonder, must you find a way to change the subject? To resort to some kind of moral equivalance in order to deflect negative attention from an organization that apparently deserves it?
Why do you find it so impossible to say something like, “In this case Planned Parenthood acted reprehensibly”?
Lynn, I haven’t changed the subject. That’s why you’re upset. I’ve simply pointed out that the God of the Bible did this sort of thing all the time, and yet Christians find a way to justify this reprehensible conduct, even though they rightly condemn it when it’s Planned Parenthood.
Why is ethnic cleansing wrong when PP does it, but just fine when Jehovah/Jesus does it?
Night Train,
You’ve had it explained to you hundreds of times…that I know of at least!
Yet, you continue to repeat it ad nauseum.
Why should I (or anyone else) bother to explain it to you again, when you’re only going to ignore it again. It’s not like it doesn’t take time or something.
I think Night Train really does want to believe in God and have it all make sense so he keeps on asking. One of these days, it’ll click. God will open his eyes and he will see that it’s not up to his logic and reasoning. It’s the way God says it is and we take it by faith. I believe Night Train is yearning for that faith. He knows he’s not going to pull anyone to his side. It may sound like he’s laughing at us, but he’s really just wants to be in. Really in, heart and soul. The people who take the time to respond maybe believe since he’s able to read, there’s a chance.
As a new reader, I find the patronizing of NightTrain a bit offensive. We have to admit, as Christians, we don’t have it all figured out. God’s ways are inscrutable. NonChristians have their own set of questions to answer, but I think it’s a bit disingenuous to pretend that as Christians we’re hunky-dory about some Old Testament passages that, yes, would appear to condone behaviour we’d be uncomfortable with tolerating in a neighboring country or our own.
In fact, we’d probably say the inevitable UN Resolution wasn’t strong enough and maybe we’d even join a coalition of Philistines to combat this ethnocentric people.
I suppose Christians have the recourse of hindsight or are privy to God’s ultimate design in establishing a country free of pagans, but if we admitted God has sanctioned some things we’re a little queasy about, maybe we’d get somewhere in these discussions.
At the very least, I don’t think we should resort to “maybe one day, he’ll figure it out” as if anyone who questions God’s goodness is thinking on a 4th grade-level. I think, if one looked at great Christian theologians, those most convinced of God’s goodness also had the strongest internal wars questioning that goodness.
I’m not saying that Night Train has to figure it all out. No one claims to have done that in their posts to him, I don’t believe. I see that the issues Night Train brings up seem to keep him from believing. What’s at stake, of course, is his relationship to God. I think his questions are his way of searching. He may not ever find satisfaction with anyone’s answers here but hopefully he’ll see that for many, not having all the answers is not a deterrent from believing.
CH is the first person I’ve seen actually show a glimmer of a clue why some of us raise objections.
I think that a lot of you shrug off the kinds of things Night Train mentions in posts 6 & 7 because you only think about them as abstract ideas. (See KRM’s flippant dismissal in No. 8.)
Take a few minutes to really contemplate it. The people that the Israelites slaughtered were not just abstract ideas. It’s not, if you believe it, just a story in a book. The Israelites believed their God told them to go slaughter people utterly, often including women and children. The whole book of Joshua is about not much more than that.
But because it’s a story in the Bible, said to be of God in an ancient book, KRM shrugs it off.
Well, a lot of people DO have trouble accepting that image of God, and when you act as if they are silly for having a problem with it, you compound the problem.
And it’s not just that NT — and I and RDean and others — raises these issues frequently. It’s that whenever we do raise them rather than getting a sensible answer, we get “God can kill the pagans if He wants to, now shut up.”
Or we get denial that the words mean what they mean.
Night Train asked Lynn:
“Why is ethnic cleansing wrong when PP does it, but just fine when Jehovah/Jesus does it?”
I think the answer is that God has the right to judge. Planned Parenthood does not.
Jesus said: when I judge, my judgment is true.
I think it is that simple. God is sovereign. We are not.
I would also like to add that you seem to want God to act the way a human government or the UN reacts. These entities, you yourself, I myself, have a limited view of things. God does not.
Our thoughts are not God’s thoughts. He knows the “big picture.” You are trying to equate God with man, and you are forgetting just who He is.
CH (#17),
As one who has responded respectfully to Night Train’s questions countless times in the past and been basically ignored, distorted or disparged by him in return nearly every time, I now have a question for CH.
I noticed that you, CH, did not answer any of Night Train’s questions or points, not with any relevant substnace that I could detect. Instead, you seemed more interested in disparaging and criticizing those of us who have already respectfully answered him hundreds of times before.
CH, why did you choose to only criticize others rather than do what you criticize us for not doing?
Planned parenthood will not be questioned or held accountable because, in my observation over the decades, leftists don’t genuinely care about rank racism from their side of the spectrum. In fact, they often totally deny it even can exist on the left.
On the wrath of God in the Bible:
God’s wroth is no mysterious secret in the Bible.
After all, God does not look upon humanity and our fate with ambivalence. When God looks at evil, for instance, He does not say, “whatever.” He answers it in full measure with deep disapproval in HIS OWN TIME AND WAY. Ultimately, and throughout biblical history, He answers evil with a divine mixture of justice and mercy. And in the end, “mercy triumphs over justice” (see James 2:13)
Still, the God of the Bible takes the severity of evil seriously. Even His grace is rooted in a barbaric and cruel act (perpetrated by humans) that God used to answer evil in a profoundly permanent way (the cross of Christ).
From cover to cover, the Bible affirms that evil is so real and serious, it justifies righteous wrath. What God does with His wrath is one thing. What we do with ours is another ethical matter to be decided in view of a bigger picture that includes God‘s love and mercy as well.
God’s wrath is not an isolated characteristic. As with any caring Father, it is God’s love for His children that lies at the root of His wrath toward whatever evil forces are arrayed to destroy and corrupt His children. If He did not love so much, He would not care. But He does.
Scripture tells us that God’s wrath is unleashed by such things as:
Pride (Psalm 59:12-13)
Ingratitude (Psalm 78:19-21)
Dishonesty (Romans 2:8)
Rebellion or stubbornness (Romans 2:5)
Unrepentance (Romans 2:5)
Following evil (Romans 2:8)
Disobedience (Ephesians 5:6)
Idolatry (Colossians 3: 5-6)
Impurity (Colossians 3: 5-6)
Greed (Colossians 3: 5-6)
Lust (Colossians 3: 5-6)
Ultimate rejection of Jesus (John 3:36).
God’s wrath can:
Burn like fire (Psalm 89:46)
Roar like a lion (Proverbs 19:12)
Flow like a flood (Proverbs 27:4)
Make the earth tremble (Jeremiah 10:10)
Swirl like the violent wind (Ezek. 13:13)
Feel like a rod (Lamentations 3:1)
Burst out like a storm (Jeremiah 30:23)
Fill cups like wine (Jeremiah 25:12)
Be stored up for us (Romans 2:5).
Night Train and CH, each passage should be studied in context in order to be understood.
John the Baptist powerfully preached about the “wrath to come” (Matthew 3:7). For John, the sole solution to this wrath is repentance!
Jesus followed John with the same message of repentance. No one in the Bible spoke more about the punishments of hell than did Jesus.
Jesus warned that the same treatment God gave to Sodom in the Old Testament would come again to towns that failed to welcome his followers (Luke 10:12).
Jesus understood God’s wrath. He said, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.” (John 3:36). Just twenty verses earlier, however, we read clearly of God’s love (John 3:16). So, the God of love is also a God of wrath.
The wrath of God and the reasons for it are also vividly exposed in the first chapter of Romans. For Paul, this is not an abstract concept. God’s wrath is specifically evoked by the manifold practices of godlessness, wickedness, and the suppression of truth. He continues, “For those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.” (Romans 2:8).
Is God unjust for bringing wrath upon us? Paul’s reply to this question was, “Certainly not!” Paul continues, “If that were so, how could God judge the world?” (Romans 3:5-6).
There is hope, however. Paul knows it is precisely the blood of Jesus that saves us from wrath (Romans 5:9). In an earlier letter, Paul wrote, “For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Thessalonians 5:9).
What about human wrath?
It is illegitimate to use the wrath of God as a pretext to justify human wrath. Some of Paul’s strongest admonitions against human anger can be found in passages that also AFFIRM the wrath of God in context.
To saints in Ephesus, Paul wrote, “Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.” (Ephesians 4:31). Just seven verses later, he warns of God’s wrath coming down on the disobedient (Ephesians 5:6).
In his letter to Colosse, Paul immediately follows a powerful reference to God’s wrath with an admonition for us to put wrath away. First, he warned that “the wrath of God is coming” because of idolatry, impurity, greed and other such evils. Then, in nearly the same breath, he continued, “But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as this: anger, rage, malice, slander and filthy language from your lips.” (Colossians 3:5-8). Yes, our unbridled wrath is often what it is that makes God mad!
In Romans, the same passage that tells us not to repay evil for evil or take revenge on others also tells us to “leave room for the God’s wrath.” Paul continued, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay, says the Lord.” (Romans 12:17-20). God has rights to wrath that men cannot begin to share.
This does not mean believers will never feel righteous anger. There is a time and place for it. So Paul recalled King David to advise us on the anger we feel, “In your anger, do not sin.” (Ephesians 4:26; from Psalm 4:4).
James also warns us to be slow to anger because “man’s anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires.” (James 1:20).
The God of the Bible (both testaments) is a God of great wrath. He can control it. David sang, “The Lord… is slow to anger, abounding in love.“ (Psalm 103:8).
God’s wrath is holy and righteous.
God’s wrath is purposeful and instrumental — to bring about repentance.
Psalm 30:5. His anger lasts only a moment, but his favor lasts a lifetime.
The Bible tells of a God who is also a God of great mercy, love, truth and justice. He encompasses all these virtues and more. We all do well to keep His FULL nature in mind before allowing any one aspect to distort our attitudes and actions in life.
That God is love is beyond question. Paul, however, can still say, “Leave room for the wrath of God.” (Romans 12:19).
Ch,
May I respectfully ask, what do you think of the fund-raising practice of Planned parenthood in this case? What do you think of abortion as a moral and political issue?
Night Train,
Feel free to opine as well. How do you stand with regard to Planned Parenthood in this case?
What PP people did was reprehensible, but let’s not go too far. They were answering a call, not soliciting funds with a racial pretext. We can’t imply that an organization is racist based on a few conversations. One (the worst) secretly recorded conversation was released, fine - how many PP people refused the gift? Will we ever know? If people made similar calls to Christian organizations, they might eventually get a hit. This is unacceptable, but we would not jump to conclusions.
I think gotcha journalism has its place as long as we keep it in context. Yes this happened, yes PP has this racist heritage, but that doesn’t mean today they are all necessarily racist. I just don’t believe that and I have no reason to believe that their apology is not sincere.
I believe they don’t care about life. I believe they make a living off of murder. That’s quite bad enough. And that’s the real issue.
All points well taken, Amphipolis.
…yes PP has this racist heritage, but that doesn’t mean today they are all necessarily racist.
Funny thing, racism. Liberal organizations (Planned Parenthood) and individuals (Robert Byrd) may be excused for past racism without ever needing to repent. Conservatives (Dixiecrats) will never be forgiven, no matter how much sackcloth they wear.
I’m feeling awfully agreeable. StuBob speaks much wisdom too!
Thank you for that excellent point Stubob.
What PP does is reprehensible. What they did in that particular case has no justification other than it is impossible to monitor every one of your employees or volunteers. I’ll briefly address NT’s questions, although I don’t know if he will be open to look at it any other way other than the way he currently sees it.
NT: A key passage in Scripture that is often overlooked as to why God allowed (and yes even ordered) the killing of so many “non-chosen” as you would call them is found in Genesis 15:16.
Read in its proper context it shows the tremendous long-suffering and patience of God toward the infidels before he resorted to justice.
When the “non-chosen” ones repeatedly, over a period of 400 plus years, shirked the mercy of God and increased in the frequency as well as in the level of their degeneracy, God used the nation of Israel as his tool of judgement.
It is difficult to cover the whole subject on a blog. It’s a bit more complicated than this, but the gist is there. It is not as some would suggest a flippant, subjective, arbitrary killing of “innocents.”
Back to PP: I don’t think that one can justify lying or manipulating the truth to entrap PP. While PP has no defense for what it does in encouraging and providing abortion, two wrongs don’t make it any more right.
Very detailed, good responses as to why God would choose to destroy some peoples.
But here’s the problem, and why I sympathize with posters like Nighttrain and SteveG. As a Christian, I look at what God did under the assumption that everything he does is right, regardless of whether it conforms to my view of a moral law or justice. That’s a leap of faith I have to make. God doesn’t abide by my standards; he creates the standards. He told Abraham to go kill his son, and Abraham was ready to do it. Now, didn’t that contradict what Abraham knew about God? Surely Abraham had some moral sense that God disapproved of sacrificing your son–after all, that’s what the pagans did. But Abraham said: “Because I accept God’s authority and moral judgment unquestionably, I’ll do this and take it on faith it’s the right thing.”
The problem is when we expect people who haven’t taken that leap of faith to take it on faith that God’s edicts in the OT were best. After all, how many of us Christians have decried the Koran’s repent or be killed! message? All they’re doing is simply following a God whose law is completely perfect to them.
I’m not arguing that God was right or wrong; I’m arguing for individual’s right to make up their own minds, and yes, that process can be extraordinarily difficult. I suspect both many believers and non-believers have encountered the same struggle I did—Is what I feel is right about Christianity enough to overcome what I feel is wrong? Then, if I say “yes”, I’ve made the leap of faith that what I feel is wrong is actually right, and I’ll let God decide.
But let’s not argue that God was right to do all those things without first arguing that the Christian God is the right God. Then everything flows from there.
You know, as Christians, we tend to approach other religions with a very critical eye, and we often laugh at inconsistencies or troubling issues. But we’ve got to explain our own troubles, too (origin of sin, intersection of free will and sovereignty) and in those cases, we chalk it up, simply to “mysteries”. If we imposed the same standard on our beliefs as we do others, then maybe we’d be more humble and consequently start showing people Christ does change human nature.
PS. I find PP reprehensible.
CH wrote, “I’m not arguing that God was right or wrong; I’m arguing for individual’s right to make up their own minds..”
Who, CH, pray tell, has questioned anyone’s right to make up their own minds?
Joel Mark (#’s 24&25),
Most excellent posts that demonstrate the patience and perseverance of a faithful witness. I am often tempted (in anger, frustration and weariness) to just dismiss certain people who never seem to listen or who just ignore countless explanations. They ask questions, but then refuse to consider or address the answers.
This tells me that the questions are disingenuous. In reality, they are not questions—they are accusations. The supposedly sincere questioner is not really interested in your answer, only in shouting accusations again and again and again. Their ears and minds are closed—but maybe only for the moment.
So this then is the important part: the faithful witness must persevere and never give up on these people and on the witnessing task God has given to us. In the process of time, He works in the hearts and minds of people in ways that we cannot fathom.
Thanks for the patience and perseverance of your witness. It is an encouragement when I am tempted to just dismiss some people and give up on them.
Your kind comments are appreciated. When Isaiah was commissioned in Isaiah 6, he was told that his message would not always be taken to heart and heard by sincere soft-hearted listeners. Warned that he would experience rejection, he was told to take up his message and mission anyway.
BTW, and completely off topic, I think Zoe is just about the loveliest girl’s name in existence.
This is in regards to PLANNED PARENTHOOD- Be prepared it is very serious, and heartbreaking!
Below are the headlines on DRUDGE for these stories.
PAPER: PLANNED PARENTHOOD caller encouraged aborting black babies…
The story that started it all…
Autumn’s Response: PP Racism Extended Version
VIDEO -
Hey, you think if they hired an actor to say that a test had been discovered to identify gay babies and we could wipe out the “gay” plague before they were born and grew up to “recruit” and “turn” unsuspecting straights gay, we could get conservatives to support a single exception to abortion? I suspect you would have them standing in line to donate.
Rdean,
Please consider that even among adults identifying themselves as liberals, remarks like yours at #39 stretch credibility so thin as to be nearly unappreciable. They probably play well at the kiddie table, though.
Have fun, and try not to spill your Kool Aid,
SG