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A growing number of businesses are experimenting with what many consider a controversial idea: allowing parents to bring their babies to work.
Advocates know that permitting babies on the job is not a universal solution. It wouldn’t work well, for example, with certain jobs, like doctoring and teaching, or for particularly fussy infants. But even naysayers may be surprised by the results of research conducted by Mary Secret, a social-work professor at Virginia Commonwealth University. Her 2005 analysis of 55 businesses with baby-friendly policies found that people often anticipate disaster but there is rarely a negative effect on co-workers or productivity. What’s more, she learned that having babies around can boost morale among colleagues. “We have tended to have this myth of the separation between work and family,” Secret says. “In reality, that never existed.”
In my line of work, I’m blessed to be able to “bring” my baby girl to work. 
But unlike the situations discussed in the article, I don’t have to worry about distracting co-workers. What do you think about allowing babies at the office? What impact do you think it would have on workplace productivity and environment?
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This is a good idea. Would some workers would be distracted, at first, but I think that is because our society has so isolated the nuclear family and that really is not a good.
Once the novelty wears off, the distraction would end, but there would have to be willingness on the part of all employees to help. It’s not as if these little people just sit there and “behave.”
Taking care of a baby is a full-time job. If you can do your job and take care of a baby at the same time, they don’t need you at your workplace.
Once I was writing a piece on a set design company. They make news sets for stations all over the world. In the beginning stages of the company the CEO hired a couple gals right out of college. Not only were these two women quite capable, but he was able to mold them to the specific needs of the job. In time these women married and had kids (one was CFO by that time). The CEO didn’t want to lose them so after a six week maternity leave the babies came to work.
What impressed me when I first walked into the office was how the very slick, contemporary design of the office melded nicely with bouncers and walkers. The next impression was how smoothly operations ran. If mama was on an international call a co-worker would redirect her toddler. When the designers would get stuck they would play blocks with the kids. It was thinking time. When a particularly hard deadline was met it was play time for the whole office (relay races with Duplos being a favorite). And when it was time for the kids to start kindergarten the CEO said, “We are really going to miss our kids. I’ve been bugging my 23 year-old autocad guy that it is high time he got married and started a family.”
Interesting story, Adios. I suspect it only works because everyone in the company was on board and it was a small group. I can see, however, in a different situation how others might not be happy about baby sitting on the job.
Our in-house dog where I work often starts barking at inopportune moments and those not on the phone have to urge him to be quiet. A crying baby would drive me, personally, crazy.
As they did for years at home.
When my daughter was born, she came 6 weeks early. Needless to say, I wasn’t even close to being wrapped up for maternity leave from work. A couple days after she was born, I started back to work a couple short days a week, simply to wrap up things for my clients. She came with me to work - it worked great! She slept almost all the time, except when she needed to eat, and I could feed her while making phone calls or working on the computer.
That being said, now that she is almost 2, she would be hell on wheels in our office! We would have fun with her around, but I would get little done - and my coworkers would be very distracted! Besides that, my office would be destroyed. As an interior designer, I have samples of stone, tile, wood, cabinet doors, carpet, etc, etc all over the office - amazing things for curious kids to explore, but also dangerous.
This idea of bringing babies to work might work in some fields, as was noted, but not others. Also, it might simply be a way of trying to have it all - and then you end up doing nothing well.
I had some kids that would have acted much better in class if they had had a baby to watch. They would have had something useful to do, i.e. not irritate others who wanted to learn. Others would have had a peer to play with. They only downside would have been the smell of changing diapers…
Also, it might simply be a way of trying to have it all - and then you end up doing nothing well.
Bingo.
Of all the silly, warm and fuzzy, feel-good ideas in the world, this one takes the cake. It’s a very, very bad idea. Bad for the kid, bad for the work environment, bad for productivity, for customers, etc., etc.
I can think of nothing more distracting than to call a business, try to talk on the phone and hear a crying child in the background, OR, hear a mother scolding her unruly child. A professional office and nursery don’t do together.
I had an appointment with an ophthalmologist, .. while we were discussing my eye allergy, his young six year old daughter continued to dart around the door, distracting both of us. Needless to say, he wasn’t my doctor of choice after that experience. I might add he thought nothing of her being there, or finding something to keep her busy while he saw patients.
On three different occasions people have brought their children into our home while doing work for us. One child was about 7, the mother thought he could play with our dogs and watch TV. The remote on the TV is digital, and cannot be played with, or the whole cable needs to be adjusted. ….. Next, a workman brought his young 5 year old son while he did a plumbing job which lasted about and hour and a half. Next a man brought his 9 month old child while he did repairs in the house, he thought I could watch the child. It doesn’t work, kids are bored, they get into things, and I was made to play ‘baby sitter’- Needless to say, it isn’t allowed in our home any longer.
And then there’s all the fun with illnesses. Either sick baby gets the entire staff sick, or the parent stays home for a couple of days and disrupts workflow.
I think employer run or employer subsidized day care should be mandatory for all employers over a certain size, perhaps 50 employees.
As for infants, I favor extending mandatory family leave out to 6 months (3 compensated) and some kind of incentive to encourage employers to allow bringing babies to work.
Victoria, I understand your discomfiture with your opthalmologist and the service people. But aren’t we, as a society, all responsible in some way for helping to promote and raise children? Aren’t these, after all, small sacrifices on your part?
Doesn’t it really take a village?
Please note that all of the suggestions in my previous posts would undoubtedly have a considerable effect on abortion rates. I’ve seen no studies, but economic factors are obviously a clear factor in a lot of womens’ decisions.
Do you agree that perceived economic necessity is the main reason many women choose to abort?
If so, shouldn’t we try to alleviate it?
If life is so precious to the pro-lifers hereabouts, what economic sacrifices should society make to encourage it? We already make some, such as providing schooling and tax deductions–why are these any less reasonable?
Do you agree that perceived economic necessity is the main reason many women choose to abort?
No. Most of my patients are on some sort of welfare. Those who abort are a)pressured into it by someone else or b) afraid that a baby will distract from “me, me, me.”
Arcadia
Most employers don’t have the money to pay for ‘day care’ for their employees. If that were made mandatory, along with your idea of 3 months paid maternity leave, and another 3 months without, leaving the employer to find a substitute and pay that person as well,….. would not be cost efficient.
Mandatory leave for mothers of 3 months, and compensated, could not be undertaken by many small companies, of over 50 employees. Can you just imagine 4 or 5 women, maybe more, all out in the same year, all being paid for 3 months by their employer. The employer would not only have to pay the new mother, but find a substitute for 3 to 6 months for the new mother. Many positions are technical, they require education and experience, it wouldn’t work. Your plan sounds very much like a socialized country, which we the USA are NOT.
People now demand more and more benefits for full time employment. This includes full medical, dental, and much more. The reason many employers are using ‘part time’ employees is: They don’t have to provide health Insurance, they don’t have to pay for many other things which employees believe they have a right to. When employees push for too much, they end up with less.
When you add up, all the benefits that people now DEMAND, its no wonder there are so many problems in this country in the financial, housing, and other areas.
You cannot make an employer add on a ‘nursery’ as an extention of his/her office. Space costs a great deal of money.
Arcadia, what I hear are DEMANDS for just about everything, except living accommodations attached to the office, with maid service.
No I am not responsible for ‘baby sitting’ children who’s parents I employ in my home. With that ‘village mentality’ my work is not accomplished, ….. and that is my responsibility, and comes first. When I am paying to see a professional, I am paying for services, not to be distracted by their children.
arcadia - 13
It’s pure SELFISHNESS on the part of any woman who aborts her child.
Adios gave an example of how this can work, & Victoria gave examples of how it can be disruptive.
ISTM the answer is that it depends upon the type of business & the atmosphere of the office or workplace. Not all workplaces deal in-house with customers. It doesn’t seem to be a strictly yes-or-no situation.
But aren’t we, as a society, all responsible in some way for helping to promote and raise children?
You mean something along the lines of It Takes a Village?
No thank you!
Karen
Being a professional in my business, meeting many people, having meetings either small or large…..I cannot think of one instance, where I would agree to meet someone, either as a group or individually with children underfoot, or endure the distraction.
Children in the work place ’smacks’ of an unprofessional working arrangement. If a company puts ‘nursery care’ before its clients, customers, patients, etc., its obvious who counts and who doesn’t-
I can’t think of one instance where this arrangement would work.
Outkast -
“It Takes a Village” - yes we all remember Hillary, and now we see her in tears over not being able to continue with this idea-
As an employer, the last thing I’d want to have is a workplace encouraging a parent to further divide his/her attention to the job I’m paying to have done. And the only thing worse would be an entire office full of these part-time-attention employees taking home full time salaries—whether they had their own children present or not—since all adult’s interest and attention naturally gravitates to children and their needs.
I use for an example, my wife. She, with all her God given, wonderful, motherliness, simply cannot pass, be near or catch a glimpse of a child across the room without diverting her attention—fully or at least partially nearing half—to the child. She would be worthless in an office where children needing attention are present, are within earshot or are even unseen/unheard yet are available.
Perhaps some, who work at home for example, can have a child present during work and function successfully. Yet, I know of two home workers in my life that needed to have the children occupied elsewhere before being able to work. One mentioned above and the other because her executive level job couldn’t professionally be handled as required with a child making any noise in the background or distracting her attention.
It’s bad enough that employees now mentally drag to work their home issues that keep them from focusing on the task I’m paying to have done. To physically bring those issues with them, so they cannot even partially ignore them because of the lack of separation, would make productivity sink like a rock. Some jobs don’t require much mental attention because of simplicity of task. However, such jobs usually require more production volume—more parts made, moved, packed or whatever—and actually do require just as much mental attention because of the need for speed or attention to quality of product through inspection of those parts. Either way, if you take the mind of the worker off the task they’re being paid to do, the end result suffers.
And I’ve not mentioned the additional costs in the form of overhead—that would be covered, at least partially, by lower wages—to pay for “proper,” approved, child-safe facilities, the cleaning/maintence of same, and the liability insurance I’d need to protect me from inevitable law suits just to have such a program. Only a business not interested in or required to make a profit—such as government or government contracted businesses—could possibly afford such nonsense.
#21 “It’s bad enough that employees now mentally drag to work their home issues that keep them from focusing on the task I’m paying to have done.”
RonD,
As I don’t know you personally I can’t say whether I would be reluctant to work for you, but as it is I am grateful to have worked for companies that did not seem to resent the fact that I (like most people) do inevitably “drag to work [my] home issues.” My primary role at work is to do the duties I am paid to do (though I have been criticized sometimes for seeming unfriendly by being focused on my work and not chatting with co-workers). But I’m still the same person at home and at work, and one always affects the other (in both directions).
Every company I have worked for full-time in the last 20 years has had an employee assistance program to help employees deal with those personal issues that do affect work. I have not used them much, but over the years I have gone to an EAP counselor on a few occasions, most recently after my mother’s death last year. The company I work for sees it as a valued service they provide to valued employees. When my son was having outpatient surgery a couple years ago, it was my boss who insisted I not stay at work but go be with my son (my husband was already with him).
As for babies in the workplace, as Karen O. points out it depends on the situation. Adios told about one (presumably for-profit) business where it worked well. When I had a baby myself I felt no urge to go visit with anyone else’s baby, and felt quite happy to have my son in a home environment (not mine) with a loving grandmother (not his) taking care of him. Now that my younger son is 8 I find that I do tend to be more attracted to other women’s babies when they come to visit (in a large department it seems there’s always someone on maternity leave, and of course everyone tells her she has to drop by so we can see the baby). I would find it difficult to concentrate on work with babies around, but I am sure some women could handle it well.
I believe TL also pointed out an instance where bringing a baby to work did work in a way. Her employers and fellow employees accomadated it because it was better than the alternative of others trying to complete some work that they would have to jump into the middle of, so to speak.
Victoria, I am curious as to whether or not the workers you were speaking of were professionals you were not acquainted with or if they were friends trying to accomadate you or your schedule. Were you paying a full rate for the work or getting a deal?
It would seem that this is another issue that isn’t always an either or. Some jobs would make such an arrangement impossible. Some it would work for in a limited way. It sure would make for a headache if the child was not well behaved.
KI - 23
The people who were working were not friends or acquaintances. They were called to do work in our home, which they were being fully paid for. I wasn’t getting a ‘deal’- No one was accommodating me, I was being asked to accommodate them.
Being well behaved isn’t always the issue. Kids get into things, play with things which aren’t toys, and they like to explore. I don’t have the time to watch other peoples kids.
Victoria - I think the point KI was trying to make is that a child in the office may work for some jobs. Mine, no - at least once they are mobile! But I did bring my baby to client’s homes more than once and no one minded - in fact, they were happy to meet the little one! I always asked first, though. However, for someone at a computer all day, not meeting with clients or customers, it may work. Everything isn’t black or white, yes or no - there is grey area in our lives.
As a side note, I have a question: What about clients who want me to accommodate them, but seem unwilling to do the same for me? I have someone using a free consultation gift cert they bought at a charity auction - donated by my company. Although I work M-F, 8:30-5, this person has decided those times don’t work for her and I need to have my husband rearrange his schedule to be home with our children so I can meet with her in the evening. Am I unreasonable to be annoyed? I think accommodation of circumstances shouldn’t solely lie with the employee; sometimes customers need to give and bend a little, too.
TL, re: #25 - I have some grey areas in my life. That’s why I use Clairol Nice ‘n Easy.
As for #26, it would be nice if customers could bend a little, too. Would you be as annoyed with this person if they were paying out of their own pocket?
TL
I don’t want to hurt your feelings or offend you, however.. when someone wants to come to our home, for a meeting, and asks to bring their child, …… they have put us in an awkward position. If we say no, that it would NOT work , they are offended, if we say yes, and really mean NO, we feel we are being ‘taken advantage’- there is no easy way to tell people who want to bring their children, to say NO. However we have learned the “NO” word and we use it.
OFF SUBJECT - We have been asked when having a ‘Super Bowl Party’ if someone can bring their 8 year old, as they like football. I told them, it just wasn’t fair to others, this was an adult party. My guest wasn’t happy, in fact she was not pleased at all, but she and her husband came anyway.
I believe people KNOW its an imposition to request bringing their kids, either to adult gatherings or meetings. I don’t think they are that naïve.
Victoria - in my case, it wasn’t an intrusion, since my baby slept the whole time and sat in her carseat. No one knew she was there. I only did this for clients I had long-term relationships with, so it wasn’t a problem. The alternative was for my client to wait until after my maternity leave. They didn’t want to do that!
Karen - I have a crop of that “grey” coming in, too!
Re: #27 - I am more annoyed since this is a “freebie” but I still get annoyed when clients want me to accommodate them with no effort to do the same. I have had clients building new homes, and don’t want to take time off to meet with me, instead expecting me to cut into my family time and work more hours to accommodate their schedules. It just gets tiresome. Asking is one thing, expecting is another.
Victoria - I meant to ask you: you don’t have any kids, do you?
TL - 26
A gift certificate, or being the highest bidder at charity auctions, is no different than money. When someone wins from a charity auction, that shouldn’t detract from the service/goods which the company donated, or effect the winner- They should be treated no different than someone writing a check-
Yes I think you are being unreasonable, you want her to accommodate you, and obviously she can’t-
This is one of the problems with so called ‘charity auctions’ the winners are made to feel that they don’t deserve what other customers pay for. However in actuality, they did pay for it, and the company offering the gift wanted to write it off their income tax, not to mention receive publicity for their company.
Tl - 30
Yes I do!
#28 “I believe people KNOW its an imposition to request bringing their kids, either to adult gatherings or meetings.”
I would say rather that some people know that it may be an imposition, and are polite enough to ask about it, while others are not polite because they don’t have enough consideration for other people (either they haven’t thought of it being a problem because they don’t think about other people’s problems, or they simply don’t care).
On the other hand, I would guess that some people “know” it is an imposition, when in fact it may not be. My husband pastored a church made up primarily of senior citizens. Some of them felt they had done their job of raising kids and now they were done; they preferred not to have children around, and would just as soon we hadn’t even had a Sunday School so parents with young children would have found a different church. But many of the people - especially the older women - just loved babies and were eager to hold them, talk to them, and play with them. They thought nothing of holding my baby and keeping him happy during a meeting, and saw no reason why someone should take him into the nursery since he was doing quite well with Ruth, or Barb, or whoever had him at the moment. (Naturally when he did become noisy or need special attention, someone would head off to the nursery to take care of him.)
Pauline
You make some good points. Church however, and a professional office, etc are TWO different things.
Nursery care is almost always provided at Church. Many older people love to play with and hold the little ones.
Children are adorable, but not at the office or in a work situation.
Victoria - we don’t take a tax deduction, so that is neither here nor there. Also, she could accommodate me, and has chosen not to. She is a teacher at an elementary school. She just had a week an a half off. She gets holidays off that I don’t. It’s a choice.
If you wanted to eat at a restaurant that closed at 9 pm, would you call them and say you can’t make it by then, could you stay open until 10? After all, I’m a paying customer? Seems rather presumptuous, no?
By the way, it was considerate of your friend to ask about bringing her child to your party - many would have just assumed he was welcome. Unless it was specified, I wouldn’t assume he wasn’t welcome at a sports-themed party!
I was less tolerant of other people’s children before I had my own - that’s why I was curious if you had any.
Victoria,
I mentioned church because it was my husband’s workplace. As a pastor, he was acting in a professional capacity every time he was there. And the older people often didn’t want to go play with my son in the nursery, they wanted to have him sitting or playing nearby so that they could conduct business without someone having to miss the meeting to care for him.
The point is that some offices and some clients do not expect the same division of professional from personal that others do. Just because it is not appropriate in your office does not mean that it is inappropriate in all cases.
The manager of our datacenter would never want any children in there, even older, well-behaved children, because he’s afraid someone will push a button “just to see what it does” and cause problems. At a smaller company I used to work for, however, it was regular practice for older children to come in and wait for parents to get off work, and they were free to play on the computers as long as they did not cause problems.
That company had a very different view of “professionalism” from what I was used to. My husband was considered “rude” because he called up and asked for my extension without saying Hi to the receptionist and asking how she was doing, as everyone else did - because they all knew each other and their families. We came from NJ where everyone was always in a hurry and efficiency was prized. But in northern Michigan, our “efficiency” was considered rudeness, but politeness meant caring about the family of the people you worked with. The company also encouraged a weekly “Friday fun time” when workers (both plant and office) were invited to come play some silly game, anything from building the best paper airplane to throwing bean bags at a target to miniature golf in the office. Morale was high and people worked well and profits kept rising, though one could argue that we weren’t nearly as efficient as we could be. When the economy went south in 2001 and a lot of us got laid off and everyone was expected to be super efficient, morale took a nosedive and I doubt personal productivity improved the way the corporate office thought it should, because the message was that the company only cared about us as money-making units, not people.
TL - 35
Calling a restaurant after they are closed expecting to be served, is very different- EVERYTHING can’t be COMPARED to ANYTHING you can think of- it makes NO SENSE!
Everyone can write off gifts and donations on their taxes, check it out.
If this is such a burden TL, I wouldn’t donate anything next time-
TL - 36
She knew there would be NO children at the gathering as it was an adult affair-
Save your breath TL.
Victoria, I am wondering if you have free babysitting available to you whenever you so choose or if you are rich enough that to pay for it is never an issue? The woman who was somewhat dismayed about bringing one child may not have wanted to pay for a sitter for the evening. Was it specified as an adult party? That is what TL was getting at. Why do you always take everything so personally? I was not trying to put you down. I was just curious, since I had never had a professional come to my home with a child in tow. The business TL is in has particular hours, as do restuarants. That is her comparison. Why does the client expect to have you have to arrange your hours to their convenience? It also costs extra to have to hire a babysitter on top of what you had gotten during the day. Of course, any business that wants to can say no. Most try to accomadate their customers as much as possible and sometimes bosses just can’t say no, since it doesn’t inconvenience them, but an employee. In fact, I know one restuarant in my town that stays open a little later one night a month in order to accomadate a group that gets there just at closing time. I always wonder how the actual servers feel about having to stay later. I make sure I tip accordingly when I am there.
LOL, VS
KI - 41
It is funny isn’t it?
KI
I have already posted that she knew it was an adult gathering. They have money to pay for sitters, they were leaving two children at home, wanting to bring the oldest.
Most people can share baby sitting with their friends, taking turns so when a party/gathering takes place they can leave their children.
Yes I can afford baby sitting, but once children are older, there is no reason to hire sitters.
Clients are very important, making them as comfortable as possible should be the aim of every company.
I don’t “ALWAYS” do anything. I certainly don’t take much of what is said in a blog personally. LOL
But some people work hard at putting others down(or else it just comes naturally). LOL, LOL, LOL, ha ha ha.
I hope random is not peeking in and chuckling…
Victoria,
I don’t necessarily expect you to disagree with the points I make here, though I am sort of disagreeing with you.
I’m a single woman who has no kids (other than occasional foster kids). Thus I might be expected to prefer adult-only gatherings. I don’t, if the adults can operate OK in an adult setting.
BTW, only once have I had a worker come to my house with a kid. He was installing my air conditioning, he’d given me a great deal, and he brought an older child, a son who was eight or older as I recall. It was a family business, and he had his son help him measure, but otherwise the son basically just stayed quiet and out of the way–something that kids don’t do without practice.
I’m inclined to think that children should be with adults as much as possible, for everybody’s sake–especially when the adults are fellow Christians. Thus, for instance, I would have been inclined to try to accommodate the older child at an adult party IF he could socialize with adults and if there wasn’t a danger of bad commercials or whatever. (I tend to think a sports gathering might be a bad idea for adults these days!)
When my church has parties for women, I speak out in favor of including girls as young as possible (12 in some cases, 15 in others–NOT 18). I think that women’s retreats should try to include older teen girls, say 15 or 16 and up. They are practically women, and it’s better to let them “practice” being women in a safe environment. There’s a really practical reason for this too–too many of our kids leave the church when they go off to college. I think a big reason is that they’ve never really been in the church, just the youth group. So the more points of connection they can have to the adults in the community, the better.
If I were to get married, I’d be inclined to include in the invitation, “Quiet children eagerly welcomed” or something along that line. No noisy disruptions, but yes, children should see adults getting married, and should be able to begin to dream of their own wedding days.
Now, my sister is so upset at the idea of “adult only” anything in the church that she says she’d just take her daughter and not ask permission (her daughter is now 2 1/2)–I think that’s wrong. But I would take a 15-year-old to an adult event without asking, as I would have expected an adult event to include me when I was 15. (I was teaching Sunday school and singing in the choir, and I could talk easily to adults. It would, in my opinion, have been wrong to exclude me simply due to age.)
I am on the side of gauging each job for how kid friendly it is. If somebody is working out in the national forest counting trees, I have no problem with the kids tagging along. If they are selling cars, I don’t want kids popping in on the conversation. If they are expecting me to babysit, they ought to think again. I like kids well enough (obviously) but think they belong under the care of parents. That includes my grandson. Unless I specifically request their presence for a specific thing or the parents need specific assistance. If I were a working woman, which I am not and only was for about a year in my whole life, I would not want to babysit while at work. If I have somebody come to my house to do a job (which I don’t) I would not expect to babysit the child. Not all people are wanting to love and cuddle every child. Nor is it necessary to be that way just because one is prolife. Well, this is a rather random post.
I meant, of course, if the CHILDREN can operate OK in an adult setting. Not all children can, and young children shouldn’t be expected to.
Another personal example: We church hopped growing up (a bad thing). That meant that every year or two we had a new pastor coming by our home so we could grill him, I mean, um, politely ask him a few detailed doctrinal questions. My younger brother and sister weren’t interested in those discussions and stayed in their rooms. I was interested. I was allowed to sit quietly and listen. The guidelines for me were clear: Usually the pastor and his wife would ask me a few questions at first (how old are you?), and then the conversation would turn to the adults. I could answer any question addressed to me. Beyond that I wasn’t allowed to participate, but I could listen. If I had a question, sometimes I whispered it to my mom, and sometimes she gave me permission to ask out loud, especially as I grew older. But I think my parents made the right decision in allowing me to be there but not requiring my younger siblings to be. (I don’t know how old I was when I started sitting in on these conversations, but would guess around eight.)
Our church has retreats, seminars, or other special events for women. These events are for the women, children are not invited- I believe that they must be 18 and over-
Women need time to be with other women, leaving the kids at home either with their husband, relatives or friends. The same goes for the guys, they need to get away from us and the kids, being with other Christian men. Retreats, and special ‘men’s breakfasts’ are held every week at our church, they meet at 7 AM. My husband belongs to a group of men who meet once a month from a group of churches, he loves it.
It’s important for women to be able to spend quality time discussing things which involve ‘child rearing’, ‘discipline’ within certain ages. Sometimes there are workshops for those trying to cope with ‘aging parents’ and other women’s interests-
It’s wonderful when women can ‘fellowship’ with other women without kids. My mom certainly loved going off with her friends for a few days, leaving us at home with dad. One time she and two of her friends, and their mothers went away,….. mom was so happy, she came back refreshed with little gifts for us, I still have one of them. We had a good time, we went for burgers, malts, and drives with dad, I think he liked having us all to himself.
The sky will not fall if we accomadate the needs of parents nor will it fall if the greater community lends a hand to raise a child.
Health care was attached to the workplace and this obviously has not worked out well for America. Child care and family leave likewise should not be left to the private sector. I took 3 months government paid paternity leave when my daughter was born paid at 66% of my wage tax free so it was almost the same as my net pay. If my wife was to have a child now I would be entitled to 6 months as they increased the amount of time off. This paid through the Employment Insurance programme. All non-birth parents are entitled to 6 months and the birth mother is entitled to a year. However, if the birth mother takes the full year then the non-birth parent losses his/her leave. He/she would be entitled to half of what the birth mother doesn’t take. The only expense for the employer is to cover for the worker’s abscence.
As for daycare at work. Some employees offer on-site daycare, free or fee-based, where one can leave their pre-school child for the day. Employers who value their employee view this as an easy way of maintaining their staff and limiting staff turnover and absenteeism.
That’s nice if you, Victoria, have friends to exchange babysitting with. I do not. Most people I know do not. Many in my area are transplants, so getting a babysitter to go out is simply cost prohibitive. I also have no family within 200 miles of me. Such is life.
Yes, clients are important, but I have turned down work with clients who are more trouble than they are worth. By the way “I” didn’t donate a free hour of consultation, my manager did. Tax issues are the owners problem, not mine. I don’t get paid enough to worry about their taxes. We do try to help our local community in any way we can.
Side note - we did donate an hour of consultation to a church fundraiser and I met with the couple for 2 hours. They refused to pay for the extra hour of consultation. This was after he invited my family and me to visit his church. I think not.
TL
I’m sorry you don’t have friends to exchange baby sitting with. Maybe getting involved with other mothers in your church might be a good thing, not only for you, but your kids- and not just for baby sitting exchanges, but for friendship.
I don’t understand why ‘transplants’ would prohibit you from getting to know them, and forming friendships. Most people are ‘transplants’ from somewhere-
I don’t believe I have ever been to a “woman’s retreat” so don’t know what they are like. I have been to family retreats/campouts and they were refreshing. Nor have I been to an adult party in years. (This upcoming birthday bash isn’t one is it?) I much prefer children to be in all social engagements I go to. But at work. Unless the place was some sort of family business or similar, it makes little sense to expect people to work full time while doing the full time job of child rearing. As Stubob or somebody mentioned, if you are doing two simultaneously, one of them is superfluous.
Mumsee, womens retreats are wonderful, the fellowship the speakers, workshops, the whole thing is great. Also getting to meet new friends, and seeing old friends, having breakfast, lunch and dinner together, its a real treat-
Some gals aren’t close to the LORD, and after 9 PM there is a chance to spend time with others who might want to talk, to ask questions, or who really need a friend to talk to. I met someone like that once, she and I stayed up and talked until after midnight, she re-dedicated her life to the LORD, it was wonderful.
I’ve never been on a women’s retreat either, Mumsee. Most churches I have been in have one each year, but they never appealed to me. Perhaps in part because when I do on occasion go to women’s functions at church - generally a meal then a speaker - I don’t find it all that great. I certainly enjoy being with a few women friends and talking, but a whole roomful tends to be too much for me. Nor have I generally found the invited speaker’s talk all that helpful. I don’t know why - I get along fine with women in a small group Bible study - but in a large group I don’t feel like I fit in.
Victoria - Being a transplant doesn’t prohibit friendship. My point was that when you aren’t from the area you are currently living in, you don’t automatically have a bunch of friends, family and acquaintances to draw from. I knew no one but my husband when we moved here.
Getting to know people on a personal level is difficult because time is so tight. We do our best. It’s nice to know you have a solution to everything, and things are so simple in your world. I should find out where you are and move there!
And, honestly, a women’s retreat really doesn’t appeal to me. I rarely do something with only women - would rather spend the money on a vacation with my husband, if I had to choose.
I echo TL’s difficulty with getting to know people well enough to share babysitting when you move to a new area. I’ve asked around, and found that most people already have arrangements with relatives, or with friends they’ve know for years. Sometimes a couple will offer to watch our kids, but either don’t have babysitting-age kids of their own to watch, or already have well-established relationship with others to watch their friends. We have welcomed those opportunities, but are reluctant to ask for them, since we can’t reciprocate.
Now that our older son is old enough to babysit it’s not an issue, of course. These days the limitation is that my husband works nights, and for most of the year it’s been 7 nights a week.
TL - 56
You move to my area, and I will do my best to introduce you to everyone. We would have lots of fun, …. I sure wouldn’t want you to be left out of anything.
Women’s retreats are a chance to relax with other Believing Christian women. If the money isn’t available, the church will most likely pick up the cost, or some your NEW FRIENDS.
What part of the US do you live in?
God bless you.
Cheese country - Wisconsin!
Pauline - 57
Pauline, if its not an issue why even bring it up? You have said “Now that our older son is old enough to babysit it’s not an issue, of course.” So you don’t have a problem with babysitting any longer.
WHAT IS YOUR POINT
TL, I love cheese.
My view of women’s retreats is as Pauline mentioned, I do fine with small small groups but tend to get overwhelmed and very uncomfortable in the larger groups. And then I am too distracted to learn anything.
And the babysitting thing. Those of us who move frequently are quite familiar with that. Most people with already established relationships are happy to have you in the neighborhood but now they have to get back to the established relationships so welcome, I hope you settle in quickly and find lots of friends and call me if you need anything! I work and am involved in twenty play groups and seventeen women’s groups and volunteer with the …but I am delighted to help you out and welcome to the neighborhood. And the new person feels very uncomfortable calling on mrs busy for anything and all the babysitters already have regular jobs and no relatives are close and finding other newbies is the only way to get settled in and it is challenging.
Victoria,
Not to speak for her, but to speak for her, I suspect Pauline was showing compassion for the difficulty TL finds herself in.
I’ve been on a few women’s retreats, three I think. I thoroughly enjoyed one, thoroughly hated one (I’d have gone home except I had no transportation), and one was very mixed.
As to women’s events in general, though, 18 is our cultural definition of womanhood, not a biblical one. I’d rather have us see interested girls–most girls aren’t interested–allowed a couple of years earlier, as a good way of getting involved in the community of Christian women before they go off to college. I don’t mean as a chance for girls to be young and immature and take over the event, but as a chance for them to be among older women and have a chance to learn without its being much of an “imposition” on those older women. A girl who can’t “act like a woman” at such an event isn’t old enough to attend.
Cheryl D,
I cannot imagine what might be happening on these “women’s retreats” that would make that a problem.
Funny how this thread has turned to women’s retreats.
I have only attended one. I will never go to another one. The retreat was called Ladies Spectacular or something like that. It was at a huge church. Lots of churches had attended. There must’ve been around 2 thousand people or more. The ladies were all encouraged to jump on the pews during certain moments. When our group was introduced, we were labeled too refined or whatever. One of the speakers who was given numerous fabulous introductions was 20 years old. She was the grand-daughter and daughter of so and so. There were a lot of elderly ladies at this conference. A group of men of the hosting church did this song and dance skit routine that was not only interminable, but grossly inappropriate. They were laughing and joking about fat women whose husbands did such and such. I’m sure it must’ve been satire, but I didn’t get it. I just sat there wondering if I was in a dream. I was going to an independent fundamental Baptist church then. We were not used to that kind of behavior. Every break, I would sneak off and call my husband and friends. I never missed my family more than I did those 2 days. It was a terrible mistake. The only good that I could see was that I didn’t need to go away to learn to love my husband and children better. (But really the retreat was about the individual and financially supporting some of the speakers.) I needed to be with them. And not waving silly little flag things and pretending that I was wildly on fire for the things that were going on.
Back to the thread…
I have a friend who did real estate part time. She would take her infant with her often to work, but she didn’t go there for more than a couple of hours at a time. It seemed to work for her. I admired how she juggled her life between working and taking care of her family. Sadly, soon after we became friends, her husband left her. She has 2 children whom she dropped off regularly at my house. I think homeschooling families often come across as being available to babysit anytime of the day. Because of her marriage issues, I almost never said no.
Theselittleones - 66
I have never heard or witnessed what you describe. I certainly don’t know who ….. ” The ladies were all encouraged to jump on the pews during certain moments” ……
Theselittleones, what kind of a ‘retreat’ did you go to? What denomination? I have never heard of anything like this. Sounds very strange.
Do you ‘BRAND’ all Evangelical women’s ‘retreats’ by this experience? I hope you will investigate other women’s conference’s-
Lumping everyone together isn’t fair. There are wonderful womens groups-
The hosting church was called First Baptist Church of …
No, I don’t brand all retreats by my experience. I must’ve just gone to a really freaky one. Or maybe I just missed my family so much that I hallucinated the whole thing? I don’t know though, I remember commenting about the impropriety of the skits with another lady who went and she agreed that it was tacky and unwise.
Our church usually does not separate families, but we had a women’s fellowship last year when we got together to discuss a book called the Ministry of Motherhood. We got together every other week. I don’t think I could’ve handled more frequent meetings. It was very encouraging. I’m glad we don’t have those things often. I always feel ambivalent about leaving my family. Women’s retreats must exist for a good reason. It’s just not for me. I wasn’t trying to lump everyone together. I remembered my dreadful experience and decided to share it. Hope it didn’t discourage anyone.