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Soul searching
One word: Inappropriate.
I agree w/ Tychicus and feel Mike Huckabee would also agree.
To all who have never read the “Mission Statement” just inside the 2nd page of World Magazine, here it is:
I would ask anyone, why would Huckabee be in the Nativity Manger? If that’s supposed to be a Comic its sick! I’m certain Mike Huckabee would not be impressed.
I have asked leaders in the Christian community if they read World Magazine and their answer is “not anymore” and they give me a variety of reasons - I can see their point.
I don’t care for it either, but it’s not like anyone at WORLD created the “comic” (and editorial cartoons are generally barbed, not comical). They simply posted it here, just as they post links to (and brief quotes from) news stories from all over the place. The signature on it says Gary Varvel and references the Indianapolis star as well as Varvel’s website.
My take on what is depicted is that someone thinks Huckabee is trying to portray himself as the savior for America or at least the Republican party, and specifically that by emphasizing his Christian faith he is hoping to have voters who consider their faith important think that he is the one candidate who will truly promote their values. From the look on the faces of the other people in the scene, they are quite unhappy with Huckabee taking the place of the Person who’s supposed to be the center of attention. If Huckabee were in fact doing that I would consider this a good critique.
However, I really haven’t followed his or anyone else’s campaign. (This in spite of living in Iowa. We don’t watch TV so I am spared most of the campaign mania - just a few automated phone messages and flyers in the mail, mostly for Obama.) So I have no idea to what extent that rather cynical view is based on reality if at all. Most editorial cartoons are highly exaggerated, to make a point.
Pauline,
Magazines within the secular world do A LOT OF THINGS that does not mean that a so called ‘Christian Magazine’ with a Mission Statement such as theirs needs to follow suit -
It doesn’t take a genius to figure out what the picture is supposed to mean Pauline, its self explanatory, and its INSULTING to those of us who are Christians.
If this appeared in a secular magazine the Christians would be very disgusted if not outright angry, after all the Nativity scene isn’t even allowed in many places. HOWEVER, a Christian Magazine (blog) takes pleasure and opportunity in taking the Nativity and placing Huckabee in the manager………its sac-religious!
You might be shocked at those whom I know personally, who have told me they will not read World Magazine any longer, it emulates the world - they can get a WORLDLY MAGAZINE ANYWHERE!
Pauline: I understand what you are saying, but exaggeration can go too far. Some things are sacred, and the birth of our Savior is one of those things. No matter what Huckabee’s motives, if you were part of an editorial staff would you endorse this cartoon? I certainly wouldn’t.
Tychicus - 6
I have stood up for World Magazine in the past, but when those whom I know speak disapproval of what is in World Magazine or on the blog, I am not going to defend it any longer.
There are those who read the blog, and read what I write. I would be a traitor and a coward, if I didn’t speak up about this.
#5 “If this appeared in a secular magazine the Christians would be very disgusted if not outright angry”
I looked at the Indianapolis Star where this was published (a secular publication as far I know), and there were comments from twelve readers. At least three that identified themselves as Christians, and only one considered it inappropriate. The others applauded the cartoonist for making a good point about what they considered the inappropriateness of what Huckabee was doing.
The cartoonist’s own words regarding his cartoon: It appears that Mike Huckabee’s surge in the polls is tied to his success in convincing evangelicals that he could be their pastor. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for Christians running for office. In fact, I consider it a plus. But just being a “Christian Leader” doesn’t qualify one to be the POTUS. And lately it seems, now maybe it’s just me, but it seems like the Huckster is just pandering.
Look, I haven’t decided where I stand on Huckabee yet. But I would be more comfortable with him it if he would get out of the nativity scene and back on the campaign trail talking about how he would tackle the problems we face.
Varvel’s Dec. 24 cartoon was a very respectful representation of the Nativity, by the way, with the words “And he will be called Prince of PEACE.” Varvel’s commentary with it, with Scripture references, was:
Last week I asked a cartoonist friend of mine if he was ready for Christmas. His response caught me off guard. “I hate this time of year.” “You’re kidding,” I said. But he wasn’t kidding. As Christians celebrate the birth of their Savior, some will hate this holiday, some will love it and others will choose to ignore it. Not much has changed in the 2000 years since that first Noel.
In Matthew chapter 2 we have the story of the Wise Men from the east who had been following a star. This light in the sky led them to Jerusalem and the King Herod the Great. They inquired of him where the King of the Jews was to be born.
Herod summoned the Scribes and they recited from the scriptures that according to the Prophet Micah (5:2), the Messiah was to be born in Bethlehem. With this information the Wise Men believed and continued on their journey and seeing the star once again they were led to the place where Jesus was born.
Herod, hated this news. The Wise Mens’ story and the prophetic scriptures of the Christ child were a threat to his throne and his kingdom since he was not of Jewish heritage and had only been appointed King of the Jews by Caesar. Instead of going to see Jesus, he sent his troops to kill all of the children in Bethlehem. The Scribes on the other hand, ignored the scriptures and the testimony of the Wise Men about the star and didn’t go to Bethlehem.
Today some, like my friend, will hate this day. Others will simply ignore this day. But to some, this day is special and they experience joy and peace.
Pauline,
I don’t need to take a poll, nor do I care what other polls, which you appear to have taken, as to whether this ‘comic’ is sac-religious or mockes the Nativity - What other people want to believe doesn’t effect my beliefs -
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Galatians 6
Mocking the Nativity to make a ‘personal point’? One who soweth to their flesh to make a point? Think about it!
No polls, Victoria. I just looked to see whether Christians were in fact expressing disgust or anger at this. Not that everyone who has a reaction is going to put their comments on the cartoonist’s blog, of course - but it is an increasing popular way to express one’s reactions.
I don’t expect to affect your beliefs. But for others who, like me, initially saw only the depiction of Huckabee in the manger and assumed that that was the irreverence, I thought it worthwhile to point out what the cartoonist was really trying to say. As I said in my first comment, I didn’t care for it - because I think it is too easy to see only the apparent mockery of the Nativity and miss the more subtle point.
Pauline you write “I don’t expect to affect your beliefs. But for others who, like me, initially saw only the depiction of Huckabee in the manger and assumed that that was the irreverence, I thought it worthwhile to point out what the cartoonist was really trying to say.”
Pauline do you honestly think that someone ‘didn’t get it’ please understand that it doesn’t take any brains at all to see what the guy was trying to say with his ‘picture’ -
Well, Victoria, I guess that means I don’t have any brains at all. Because I really did have to spend some time looking at it to figure it out.
If you want to take that as an ‘insult’ that’s your prerogative - however, I can only speak for myself, and what I knew it meant -
Pauline: FWIWI think your observation and interpretation is spot on.
We Christians can be really thin skinned.
metanoia, and some can be sac-religious, or gaze upon the same, and think nothing of it -
Pauline:
You’re right on target.
Metanoia:
Yes, thin-skinned and even perhaps a little childish.
Victoria: I gazed upon it much and thought through the sacrilegious aspect of it all as well as the political ideology.
I didn’t say I agreed with the cartoon, only Pauline’s observations about it. I tend to agree with you about its sacrilegiousness, but what else can we expect from a probable non-Christian cartoonist posting in a non-Christian newspaper.
Isn’t it interesting that a cartoon depicting the essence of Christian belief and there is no rioting in the streets or calling for death by beheading of the author?
Not only can Christians be thin skinned, but they can be amazingly tolerant as well. For me Jesus’ word are appropriate, “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons_controversy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Holocaust_Cartoon_Competition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Anti-Semitic_Cartoons_Contest
janie
It’s childlike to believe using the Nativity as a comic, inserting a presidential candidate in the manger instead of the Christ child is absurd and sac-religious…….obviously you can’t see it!
metanoia - 19
YOU WRITE “……..but what else can we expect from a probable non-Christian cartoonist posting in a non-Christian newspaper.”
This isn’t a non-Christian newspaper or a non-Christian Magazine or blog - read my posts 3 and 5 -
Christians aren’t as you call it “thin skinned” when they stand for what they believe, but when they knuckle under, as many do its cowardly -
………..“Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.”………
Christ spoke those words on the Cross, does that mean that we stand by, and say nothing when people make FUN of the Nativity? Did the Apostles or Paul utter those words to those who sinned or mocked the Word of God? Did the LORD Jesus Christ say those words any other time, other than the Cross? Think about those in the temple, and how Jesus anger at their “money changing” - what did Jesus do then?
Pauline - 8
No one put Mike Huckabee in the “nativity scene” except …. misguided, Gary Varvel - Gary Varvel needs to understand the sacredness of Christ’s birth, and if he can’t, then perhaps he can respect those of us who do -
Victoria: The cartoon was originally posted in a non-Christian venue. For WORLD to replicate it for comment is no different than posting an AP story of Bhutto’s killing, or Romney’s latest campaign speech.
The purpose of posting the cartoon was not to condone it but to elicit response and reaction, of which you have done both.
I don’t have to stick up for WORLD as they obviously don’t see a need to do it themselves by not addressing your comments.
You are offended. You’ve made your case. Pauline and I and others see it differently. We are not offended and it doesn’t lessen our love for the Savior because we are not offended by a tacky cartoon.
Metanoia,
We ALL know that the cartoon was originally posted in a non-Christian publication, that is not the POINT! The ‘point’ is, there was no reason to give it attention here - unless of course negative attention, is better than no attention at all -
World Magazine rarely addresses the comments made here, so whats ‘news’ about that?
Sounds like you are posturing to become Editor in Chief of WORLD, since you seem to know what is newsworthy better than they do.
Apparently there are some who visit this blog who think that the cartoon was worthy of debate.
I admire your zeal, but not every battle is worth fighting. You can have the last word.
Metanoia, I’m not interested in being an ‘Editor in Chief of World’ …. what I do want to do is, influence ‘World’ to be true to their MISSION STATEMENT!
“To report, interpret, and illustrate the news in a timely, accurate, enjoyable, and arresting fashion from a perspective committed to the Bible as the inerrant Word of God.”
A ‘Nativity’ scene with a presidential candidate squeezed into the manger isn’t a Biblical perspective, but one of ridicule regarding the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ -
There are many ways in which to typify ones dislike of a presidential candidate, without using being sac-religious - We as Believers don’t need to use the the Global World’s point to make our beliefs known, and we certainly don’t need to copy their MO -
Victoria:
You’ve made many wise and valuable remarks and comments on this blog in the past, which is likely why many listen to you.
On this topic, however, you’re branching into hysteria. The looks in the editorial cartoon character’s eyes says it all: this is not what they were expecting at the manger! It’s a valid point to make. It took me second to understand it. It doesn’t offend me, since it’s not saying a thing about Jesus….Mike Huckabee isn’t Jesus, and vice versa. God is not hurt or damaged by this cartoon…He’s sort of above this kind of thing. Political cartoonists do this sort of thing all of the time.
This time, you took offense. We’ve heard.
Now, kindly, calm down, PLEASE. You’re beginning to embarrass yourself, and us.
Kennethos - 28
YOU WRITE:
……..“God is not hurt or damaged by this cartoon…He’s sort of above this kind of thing. Political cartoonists do this sort of thing all of the time.
This time, you took offense. We’ve heard.
Now, kindly, calm down, PLEASE. You’re beginning to embarrass yourself, and us.”
Kennethos, you now SPEAK FOR GOD, you know that God is not hurt, you presume to know how God feels? Political cartoonists do all sorts of things, they aren’t a Christian blog -
I haven’t embarrassed myself at all, but you certainly have taken the liberty to ’speak for God’ which should embarrass YOU!
Victoria,
The Nativity scene is not sacred. It is a sub-Christian cultural relic that doesn’t even comport with any one of the Incarnation narratives of the synoptic gospels. Moreover, the Second Commandment forbids making graven images of God, such as depicting the Christ-child in a nativity scene.
The cartoonist used a cultural relic that is dear to many pseudo-Christian civil religionists to poke fun of a Presidential candidate whose entire campaign is based on pandering to the prejudices and idiosyncracies of these pseudo-Christian civil religionists. There’s nothing offensive about the cartoon at all.
I suspect that you’re partial to “The Huckster” and don’t like seeing him ridiculed. Your feigned outrage is getting a bit annoying, though.
Kiyoshi - 30
I don’t agree with you - I am sure you don’t find many things offensive relating to Christianity -
I’m not partial to Huckabee for President, so you are wrong again -
Victoria,
I find nativity scenes to be offensive because they violate the Second Commandment. They are a graven image of God. You can disagree all you want, but that won’t stop you from being dead wrong.
I find it amusing that so-called “Christians” fight to display nativity scenes, and end up condemning themselves as lawbreakers by participating in such idolatrous displays. They are nothing but a trashy display of sub-Christian American folk religion. You can have your folk religion; I’ll take Christ.
Kiyoshi
We will need to agree to disagree!