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Oh, Susanna
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“Five and a half years ago, Susanna’s three sons, hale men in their 20s, died in a boating mishap on the same day,” Andrée Seu writes. “Her husband and she were already divorced. Her Christian daughter subsequently renounced her faith-and her mother.”
As Christians, we sometimes deal with people’s pain by sprinkling Bible verses on it. But what do you do when you meet a Susanna?
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Less is more
Tell her how horrific this sequence of events must be, and weep with her. I would say that the daughter’s pain is deep as well, and that her rejection of the Gospel has to be seen in light of the marital breakup, the brothers’ deaths etc.
Sawgunner speaks my mind.
I would not throw verses or cliches at her. I would do my best to be kind and sympathetic. I would help her in the practical things of life if needed.
Come alongside her and help carry the load of grief and pain, pointing always to the One who bore the load of our sin. Not preaching at her, just living out the love of Christ on a daily basis, in practical, down-to-earth ways.
A person should just hold her and cry. I’ve been there.
Total agreement with all the above.
Just explain to her that she should rejoice that her three sons got killed and her daughter rejected her. The Bible says to give thanks for everything, and that God works all things together for good for Christians. So really she should be glad her sons go killed and her daughter wants nothing to do with her. God’s going to work it all for her good.
Everyone here is acting as if the question concerns what to do if you’re with her immediately or sons and estranged daughter and get over it. She needs to “don’t worry be happy.”
Of course most Christians don’t do this. The recognize that Romans 8:28 isn’t really true. It’s just a platitude, meant to keep Christians from questioning their beliefs. And situations like Susanna’s make a mockery of Romans 8:28. It’s a joke, and in this situation, a monstrous one.
Additionally on this, I think we have to realize that the grief of bereavement is often so existential that nothing will really make the person feel any better except time. Sometimes the best thing to do is just express sorrow for the loss and express a sincere desire to help if needed.
“theological Gordian Knot” is an awesome phrase which I intend to plagiarize often now. I think the key to retaining faith in the presence of overwhelming grief is to have some other reason to believe beyond the hope of continual cheap happiness.
Don’t know why part of the post disappeared. Here’s the original.
Just explain to her that she should rejoice that her three sons got killed and her daughter rejected her. The Bible says to give thanks for everything, and that God works all things together for good for Christians. So really she should be glad her sons go killed and her daughter wants nothing to do with her. God’s going to work it all for her good.
Everyone here is acting as if the question concerns what to do if you’re with her immediately after the terrible events occurred. They say you should comfort her, because even Christians recognize that no matter how much “good” God is going to bring out of three sons dying nasty deaths in one day, at first it can be hard to deal with. But five years later? Christians should be telling her to grwo up, get over it, and quit rejecting God’s “blessing” if she wants to be happy. After all, what are three dead sons and an estranged daughter compared to God’s “blessing”? It’s time to start getting over her three sons dying and her estranged daughter. Not only get over it, but start praising God for these things. She needs to “don’t worry be happy.”
Of course most Christians don’t do this. The recognize that Romans 8:28 isn’t really true. It’s just a platitude, meant to keep Christians from questioning their beliefs. And situations like Susanna’s make a mockery of Romans 8:28. It’s a joke, and in this situation, a monstrous one.
Thanks for trying to ruin a perfect reasonable discussion, Night Train. Why do you come to this blog again?
You’re totally correct, John M. It takes time to work one’s way through the grieving process (a process that includes feelings such as rejection and anger).
I weep with those who weep.
I’ve had friends suffer hideously. One ran over her two-year-old daughter. (The child was in the house with her father, her aunt, her older brothers, and baby sister while mama got the van out of the garage to take the family to get their first family portrait with the baby. No one was at fault; the child just somehow got out, and police who looked at the scene said there was no way she could have seen the child. They moved within a year of the child’s death.)
What do you do? You listen, you cry, you hug, and you comfort as best you can. And you pray very hard for their faith to be strengthened and not diminished.
One of my closest friends is ninety now, with Alzheimer’s. I’ve known her for twenty-five years. She bore four children. Her husband died in his sleep when the youngest was a few months old, then that child died of leukemia at about age nine. One of the other three died of breast cancer as an adult. My friend’s second marriage ended in estrangement (eventual reunion before his death, but many years of living apart). She’s had other hard things. By my measurements she has had a hard life. Though she still speaks sadly of the loss of her first husband and her children, she wouldn’t say she has had a hard life. She is one of the most joyful people I know, quick to hug others, very loving and tender, quick to point to Christ.
And so, with the friend who lost her two-year-old in the most hideous way a mother can imagine. She and her husband grew closer to God and each other, not farther away. Ultimately God Himself had to comfort them. They’ll know that sorrow to their dying day; they don’t pretend they don’t feel it. But with that sorrow, they know, they truly know, that God is good.
While I was looking for the quote, Michelle just said what I came to say. Rom. 12:15, “… Weep with those who weep.” Several of you were saying as much.
Make it Man. You asked yesterday if Night Train was really Nick Peters in disguise. Nick wasn’t that versitile, nor did he seem to know Bible verses.
But NT reveals that he misunderstands Romans 8:28. Not all things are good, and not all things cause rejoicing. “All things work together for good to those who love God, to them who are called according to his purpose.”
In 1952, while my family was praying for their oldest son in the AF, away doing dangerous things, their youngest son was hit by a car and killed less than a hundred yards from home. There was no cause for rejoicing, but much cause for comfort in knowing that he was in “the arms of Jesus” as they correctly say. Not all things are good, it does much harm to pretend that they are.
Night Train - In addition to what Chas wrote about Romans 8:28, I’d like to point out that the other verse you mentioned tells us to give thanks in everything not for everything. And yes, there’s a big difference.
Years ago something happened in our family that we could see no good in. But I knew what God said, & I trusted in Him & His word. So, not knowing what else to pray for at the time, we began thanking God that He was in control of this situation, that we would see us through the crisis, & that He would indeed bring some good out of it.
Then followed a series of “little miracles” that put our life back together & sustained us. We came out of that potentially destructive situation better than we were before.
Worse than that, it’s something that God did to her.
I suppose if one’s theology involves believing that God runs the entire show, then one is obligated to accept that She does some pretty cruel things to us humans.
To many of us, God doing/allowing bad things to humans seems quite astounding and troubling.
But, in Christianity, as it’s currently practiced, one is obligated to accept that God does whatever She wants to humans, and one is not to question it.
The thing is, I don’t mock or belittle Andree, Suzanna, or any one else for how they deal with tragedy. We all have to find a way to deal with the bad things in life. And whatever works for someone, as long as it does no harm to themselves or others, I’m ok with.
Andree doesn’t reveal to us how Suzanna is doing. But I wish her all the best in whatever way brings her comfort and peace.
The Bible is never more needed than when someone is going through a season of severe suffering. All the approaches above are fine (excpet Night Train, of course) if those approaches are coming from a sincerely compassionate heart. But there is NO reason not to use the Bible for all it is worth–if used with wisdom and compassion as you seek the most loving way to communicate.
I like; “The Lord is close to the broken-hearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit.” Psalm 34:18.
Romans 8:28 is also a good resource for comfort at our deepest core. Romans 5:1-5 is also a wonderful resource for hope.
“Weep with those who weep…” is from Romans 12:15.
I had a roommate who found more healing than he ever expected through a severe loss by reading the book of Hebrews over and over.
But (as the Bible itself teaches) words alone cannot replace your loving presence and abiding compassion. Be willing to share every emotion you possibly can–the anger, the sorrow, the loss. Then, in time, maybe they will be willing to share your abiding faith, hope and love.
At this time of Christmas, let us be thankful that God did not ONLY just send us a bunch of words in a book, but He sent us His own Son, born in the flesh to experience humanity with us and share our sorrows and struggles.
Isaiah the prophet forespoke that the Messiah would be a “man of sorrows.”
There is also the Shepherd’s Psalm.
As a pastor, I have never found anyone to be bitter or resentful over the sharing of God’s word with them in a thoughful and empathic way–when the time is right. It does wonders sometimes to gently read scripture at the bedside of one who is so devastated (physically or spiritually) that they can hardly respond. I have build awesome relationships with suffering people through my sincere (led by the Holy Spirit first of all) attempts to bring the Word of God to bear in a dire circumstance.
This is never a replacement for doctor’s care, meals, long hugs, helping take care of details, weeping endlessly or any of the kind suggestions above (except Night Train’s comments).
When they know you really believe it and live by it, they welcome it from you–even in their toughest moments–and it sometimes actually helps.
But discretion is crucial.
Regarding Andre Seu,s article:
Seu wrote; “it’s something that God did to her.”
One must not ignore the big picture of what God has done for us. Part of mature faith is to take the good with the bad. Look what God did to His own Son. He had reasons that Jesus’ disciples could not grasp at the moment and never could have grasped had not the Holy Spirit revealed it to them afterward.
Seu wrote; “I felt like David when God struck Uzzah because he touched the ark.”
Wait! David misunderstood the event and apparently so does Seu. The text makes it clear that God struck Uzzah down “because of his irreverence.” (2 Samuel 6:7). Irreverence is a heart and soul condition. The text make it clear that God saw Uzzah’s heart, not just his action.
To Seu I would say that if “Susanna does not fit in [your] theology,” then you desperately need a new and different theology.
As a pastor and as a person, I have gone through and helped others go through more severe sorrows than most I know. There is nothing glib about my perspective here. However, any theology that does not carry you through a funeral with hope and into life’s toughest sorrows with a light at the end of the tunnel is not worth having.
As C. S. Lewis might say, we need a more “muscular” Christianity in our time. And that does not mean anything insensitive. It means both a tough-minded and soft-hearted Christianity.
Is God supposed to prevent any bad thing from happening to anyone? If not, which ones should he prevent? Can you say? When” Where?
That has never been His will for us. He willed for His own Son to suffer and He wills for us to walk in His (Jesus’) steps (1 Peter 2:21).
Sorry, but that’s His call. And even if you turn Him down, you still have no better explanation for human suffering than anyone else.
We are all for compassion, but we rarely recognize that without pain and loss in our own lives, we could not develop genuine compassion. It would be a non-virtue, non-issue if we never faced hurt ourselves.
If God prevented bad things from happening to anyone, then no one would die. No one would know tears born of pain and heartache, which would make us very empty-hearted people in the long run.
The whole fabric of human motivation and character development would unravel if we were shielded from all pain and tragedy.
We are all for compassion, but we rarely recognize that without pain and loss in our own lives, we could not develop genuine compassion.
I’m not sure how sound of an idea that is. I suppose one could justify beating someone so they’d know what real pain is, and develop an appreciation for being pain-free.
*****
If God prevented bad things from happening to anyone, then no one would die.
I’m not clear how one necessarily leads to the other. Could God not make our lives happy if She wanted, and then just zap us with a fatal heart attack to end it? So it would be, say, 80 years of bliss, and then maybe 5 minutes of bad (heart attack).
*****
Many of us remain curious about a deity that needs to visit pain and anguish on humans in order to get them to worship/appreciate/revere/love Her. Perhaps our understanding of the deity is incorrect?
Oh, and before anyone “jumps” me, I’m just thinking out loud. I have no answers to the questions/doubts I raise, only questions. We each have to find our way in life. If you’ve found your’s, congratulations (seriously). We’re all just doing the best we can.
Anlir,
Our experience of pain and anguish is the soil from which compassion and empathy grows. Without compassion and empathy, we wrote posts like #8.
All the great virtues would be empty if we lived in a world wherein there could not be pain and anguish. No real courage without fear. No real patience without frustration. No love without need. Need I go on?
We were not placed here to exist on our own terms. We were placed here to develop a hunger and thirst for righteousness and for God, our only source of righteousness.
Night Train,
Would you be willing to share your experience with Christianity? Did something happen to cause you to reject the Bible and Jesus Christ?
Thank you in advance.
Night Train - The Bible says to be thankful in everything, not for everything.
I actually typed out a longer post about this & how God blessed our thankfulness during a very difficult situation in our lives, but it didn’t show up.
We were thankful that He would indeed bring good out of the situation (though at the time, we couldn’t see how), that He would see us through it all, & that He was in control.
God gave us a series of “little miracles” that put our life back together, & things were better after than before.
I have never been particularly thankful for any of my trials while I was in the midst of them. Of the penultimate one, I was to the point of being able to say “if I survive this one, I will look back and be thankful for whatever it was I am to learn from this” and the last one I got to the point of being able to be thankful to God for all I did have - and for His call that brought me to full saving faith (through the penultimate trial) - and accepted that He could call me home to Him at any time and I would remain thankful.
Night Train,
Would you be willing to share your experience with Christianity? Did something happen to cause you to reject the Bible and Jesus Christ?
Suffice it to say that I used to be an on fire for Jesus evangelical Christian, but I no longer am. There were no doubt some factors that contributed to me questioning my faith, but I don’t care to relate them. I’m not inclined to share a lot of personal information on here. It makes me uncomfortable. Besides, my story is real boring.